Reason to build Spider Ts w/ mkVs available?

[Shrugging Khan]

So I have Spider turrets unlocked, and I have an mkV Spider Turret controller.

Do I have any reason in the world to build mkIs?

Sure, a cap of mkIs can target twice as many enemies, but the mkVs are five times as damaging to units and their engines!
I can't think of anything to do with my standard spider turrets

[Tridus]

Not really, no. Those controllers are out of whack with the normal turrets ATM.

[Shrugging Khan]

Damn. And I'm even playing with chivalric AIs, so I can't even justify the unlock with redundancy.

Bye-bye, spent knowledge!

[Tridus]

Yeah, if you can get to that controller, the unlock is basically useless unless you're playing Fallen Spire (it unlocks railguns on FS ships).

[TechSY730]

As the spider turret is currently the "Mk. II sniper turret", either the sniper core turret controller needs to be removed and the sniper core turret controller disables both sniper and spider turrets, or the sniper and spider turrets need to be split into two seperate turret lines, each with >=2 marks, or the core turret controller system needs tweaks.

Having a core turret controller for a turret type with only 1 mark is sort of pointless, or at least it is under the current core turret controller system (which, IMO, needs some sort of change)

[LaughingThesaurus]

What if the Spider Turret was basically just treated as a Sniper Turret mk II, and more abilities are added as the mark of the sniper turret goes up. The mark V has more abilities, not significantly better stats, and you make your decision based on sniper-range damage or on the variety of mark V utility.

[Toranth]

As the spider turret is currently the "Mk. II sniper turret"

They're not anymore, remember that the Spider Turret took a 50% damage reduction in exchange for the Engine Damage.
So, while I agree that the "No Mk V/other marks co-existing" rule is silly when there is only one Mark of turret, I don't think we can just replace the Mk V Sniper turret with the Mk V Spider.  Splitting into seperate lines might be fun, but potentially very powerful.

[Aeson]

In all honesty, I think that Spider Turrets and Sniper Turrets are sufficiently powerful that I'd be willing for the Core Spider Turret Controller and Core Sniper Turret Controller to just provide me with per-planet caps of the Spider and Sniper Turrets we can unlock. Especially since I was using these almost as if they had a per-planet cap of 10 or 15 before Core Turret Controllers were even hinted at (which is more like 10-20% of the cap than 50% of the cap, noting that I usually play with Normal caps) rather than dumping them on my chokepoint worlds, anyways. They aren't something that I'd count on to defend a border world on their own without gate raids and CPA protection, but they are useful for cleaning up leaks and holding up breakthroughs.

[Aklyon]

That would be awkward to fit in though. Its not a core turret controller if it gives you non-core turrets, and you can already build those turrets anyway. They would go from 'awesome' to 'this is somewhat less useful than core flak as my only controller so far/ever depending on where the rest are at.'

[Ranakastrasz]

Core turrets are, from what I saw, as cheap as T1 turrets, and then 5 times as powerful. And then, note, that spider turrets specifically, get 5x engine damage, and hence totally invalidate the whole *We are not enableing T4 Riot starships because no enemy ships would be able to move again, ever* when Spider turrets do the same thing, easier, and can cover all planets.

Its so insanely OP its not even funny.

The rest are not much better. If you get Core turrets, you just place them on all planets, and ignore the inferiour, more expensive, and more energy intensive versions, even if you spent knowlege on them. Admittedly, if you unlock T3 of a turret, it might get you more firepower if you crowd it all on a single planet, but that is not really worth it at that point.

[Tridus]

mk III does beat mk V, if you put every mk III turret you have on the same planet.

mk II is totally redundant by itself once you have a core controller, and only useful if you also unlock mk III and put them all on the same planet.

There's proposals out there on how to fix this, but it's been a problem since the VotM alpha.

[Fluffiest]

This wouldn't be a problem if you could stack mkV and lower mark turrets on the same planet as you originally could; but some people didn't like that this further favours the single-impregnable-chokepoint approach.

I vote for just removing the Core Spider Turret Controller entirely.

[Aklyon]

How often do you actually find it within a reasonable distance of your planets, though? I'd vote against removing it.

[Histidine]

Just remove the turret conflict I'd say, it's not like chokepoints becoming somewhat stronger is a Big Deal.

If it does turn out to be a problem then halve the core turret caps again.

[Tridus]

The proposal that was on the table was to change the normal turrets to have per-planet caps (like the turret controller) and massively drop the cap per planet. Remove the conflict between turrets. Then, add a low-cap building that lets a planet have more than the normal turret cap, but conflicts with core controllers. That would make unlocking mk II turrets strictly an improvement, since you're getting more turrets everywhere.

So you'd be able to stack core turrets and normal turrets everywhere except a chokepoint, because Keith is really adamantly against that. I suspect the only way that part is going to go away is if the chokepoints get less normal turret firepower and the core turrets can make up the difference (so the net increase by allowing them on a chokepoint is zero).