Radar damping on guard posts

[Ranakastrasz]

Do we really need more units like the stealth battleships?

Does nobody remember the old space tanks or special forces rally points? >_>
I dont think we need another damage mitigation stat, I believe we need ai design that encourages the current ones to matter.

I am not sure what was so special about the stealth battleships, I know they are nearly at starship level cap and power, and are cloaked and have radar dampening.

I remember the old space tanks (assuming you are talking about the space tanks that are basically identical to the ones we have now but had 30k shields and still died to frigates instantly due to minimum hit chance of 50% from Frigates)

I do not know what you mean by special forces rally points being special either, unless you mean special forces guard posts, which  you have to get rather close to them to deal damage due to shields (which were rather low nonetheless) which I think was better than they are now, since radar dampening means you have to ALWAYS get right up close and personal with them, hence letting them blast your ships to bits, rather than sitting back and pounding at them from a distance without taking any fire, although having as much as 50% reduced damage due to it's shields.

And as Techsy730 said, This is not a new damage mitigation stat, it is making an old stat less of an *all or nothing* deal, so as to make so-called long range attacks usable vs things like guard posts, which is currently not the case, despite the SiegeAntimatter starships's tool-tip

[BobTheJanitor]

which is currently not the case, despite the SiegeAntimatter starships's tool-tip

The way I read the new Anti-Siege-naught's tooltip, it is implying that it does a lot of damage to guard posts, not that it's intended to do that damage from the other side of the map. Of course if you get it in range without something else to tank the damage, it will quickly turn into a pile of spare parts and molten slag, but that's a different issue.

Edit: As a result of this thread, I have tried focusing more on small fleet tactics in my current game, vs my usual massive blob of doom, and it actually does make the game more enjoyable and strategic when you can focus down one guard post at a time. Good to know that there's a way to play that doesn't involve 'select all, attack move'.

[Ranakastrasz]

which is currently not the case, despite the SiegeAntimatter starships's tool-tip

The way I read the new Anti-Siege-naught's tooltip, it is implying that it does a lot of damage to guard posts, not that it's intended to do that damage from the other side of the map. Of course if you get it in range without something else to tank the damage, it will quickly turn into a pile of spare parts and molten slag, but that's a different issue.

Oh I know that, however the antimatter starship's significant range seems to be it's outlining feature, being able to drop a beating against large targets from a distance, however this is not possible due to radar dampening, and bringing it in close defeats the purpose of bringing it along. I have to agree with the act of keeping it on defenses, as it decimates starships (not guardians so much as they usually have radar dampening, like everything else) since that is the only place where the targets it would be used on exist normally, or bring it to take out high end starships (or their engines). The idea that they are specialized vs guard posts or guardians seems incorrect, due to it contradicting the outlining feature.

[Lancefighter]

Anti-Siege-naught's tooltip

Yeah, those..

Anyway, what I'm saying is that If you add radar damping as a less all-or-nothing measure, I am worried more ships will get radar damping, which is something I certainly dont want.

Also, my 'small fleet' consists of like cap fleet/zenith starships, riot mk1/2, and bomber/siege mk1.. And mk3 planets still all come at me

[Ranakastrasz]

Anti-Siege-naught's tooltip

Yeah, those..

Anyway, what I'm saying is that If you add radar damping as a less all-or-nothing measure, I am worried more ships will get radar damping, which is something I certainly dont want.

Also, my 'small fleet' consists of like cap fleet/zenith starships, riot mk1/2, and bomber/siege mk1.. And mk3 planets still all come at me

Don't starships count as like 50 fleet ships for certain calculations?

And I see how you would think that, But even if that is the case, the effect of radar dampening would be reduced from what it is now.

[BobTheJanitor]

Well there is a precedent in artillery golems becoming immune to radar damping, so we already have that inch. Now we just need to take the mile.

I'm not sure what the best answer is, really. If you want to keep small, up close engagements then you can't have something firing from a distance. Since firing from a distance was basically what sieges were good for, they got renamed and slightly repurposed. The problem, as far as I can tell, is that the ship wasn't repurposed into anything else. It just lost what was good about it while gaining little in return. All that happened was that they lost their ability to pierce force fields, and a bunch of things got radar damping. So they took two nerfs and got a rename. That doesn't exactly make them more viable. You could make them tougher so they could tank the return fire while they pound on things from within damping range, but then you've practically turned them into a bomber and there's no reason for them to exist any more.

If ships could have a minimum range, as well as a maximum range, then they could be retuned into something interesting. Give them immunity to radar damping, and give them back their forcefield piercing shots, but make them incapable of shooting ships at short/medium range. If there were some way to make them require a set-up and tear-down time (call it redirecting power from the engines to the antimatter cannons and vice versa) then you would have a monster of a ship at range, that is completely pathetic without support ships to take out nearby enemies. That would be my image of a true siege ship. This all might be a bit too complicated for the streamlined design that AI War has for individual ship UI, though. I'm not sure how you could represent it properly in the game as-is. Also that probably would be too micromanagement intensive to fit the feel of the rest of the game.

[Lancefighter]

didn't the sniper unit at some point have a minimum range?

[Ranakastrasz]

didn't the sniper unit at some point have a minimum range?

Actually, I think it did, at one point.

[Philo]

Radar dampening is fine how it is atm. I don't really see the problem.

[BobTheJanitor]

Radar dampening is fine how it is atm. I don't really see the problem.

Not to be sarcastic, but did you read the last few pages? It's radar damping specifically in the case of Siege, er, Antimatter Starships that is the subject of discussion. How do you feel about that?

[zebramatt]

Radar dampening is fine how it is atm. I don't really see the problem.

Not to be sarcastic, but did you read the last few pages? It's radar damping specifically in the case of Siege, er, Antimatter Starships that is the subject of discussion. How do you feel about that?

It's interesting that people are discussing altering an entire game mechanic in order to suit a unit. Especially since it's that unit!

[BobTheJanitor]

Well if it didn't stick out as such an obvious sore spot: Long range unit for nuking down units that can't be nuked from long range... obviously that rubs some people the wrong way! Maybe the fix is just to make all immobile units immune to antimatter shots. Not exactly what people are looking for, but it would take care of that facet of the problem at least!

[x4000]

Or I could just take away the range of the antimatter starship, too.  But the thing is, its range is great for taking on other starships, golems, etc.  Perhaps this just needs to get really toned down from being as long range as it is, though.

Honestly, I'm not too broken up about the current scenario with regard to this, though.  Right now the antimatter starship:
1. Is great at hitting certain ships from long range -- awesome.
2. Has to move in closer to hit certain fixed-position targets -- fair enough.

This doesn't strike me as a great tragedy, and removing or interfering with #1 to suit #2 doesn't strike me as great either.

[BobTheJanitor]

I haven't actually built one in a while, so apologies if I'm getting it totally wrong, but if I recall the ship is actually pretty squishy and dies easily to guard post fire if you try to send it in without a lot of help. Also isn't it comparatively slow? I think those were what made it undesirable for slowly trucking around a system taking down guard posts. But again... I really don't remember. I much prefer to build bomber starships and blow up the galaxy with them.

[x4000]

Part of the release that renamed these also doubled their health.  And: yes, they are less effective against guard posts compared to bomber starships if you don't want to move them all around.  It's definitely a better idea to use the bomber starships against guard posts if you want them to go down easily and quickly.

That said, if you just build bomber starships then you're missing out against guardians and golems and spirecraft and such that are attacking you.  Really, the antimatter starship is much better on defense, which means the range is helpful there and the slow move speed doesn't matter.  Or even useful for protecting your main fleet against an aggressing enemy on the enemy planet.

But as far as quickly running around a system clearing it of guard posts: that's not really its function.  So, you're right to use bomber starships for that, to be sure.