Quick ? on multiple-shot ships

[jordot42]

If a unit shoots more than 1 round per salvo (all turrets, MLRS, the 133 shot core guard post, etc.) and let's say that only one ship is there to receive the hits, will that ship get hit with all of the rounds or just one of them?

Thanks.

[rchaneberg]

It seems to me* like if there are not enough targets then the shots will be concentrated amongst the available targets.

*This is mostly based on fortress vs. starship matchups: it seems that as soon as the starship gets close enough for radar dampening not to matter, then the fortress fires a full salvo at the only thing available -that one unfortunate raid that got through the chokepoint.

[jordot42]

Cool beans, thanks.

[keith.lamothe]

Some units intentionally concentrate their secondary shots (relenting only when the in-the-air firepower passes the overkill threshold), some units intentionally divvy them up, but if there's only one target they just burn the full clip on them, so to speak.

[Martyn van Buren]

But there are also some ship-types that do AOE with a maximum number of ships hit, right, like beam and lightning weapons?  Am I right to think that electric attacks do optimal damage against large numbers of ships but slightly more than ( max damage / max number hit ) against single ships?

[Diazo]

There is 3 types of AOE in the game.

First is uncapped, single hit. Used by Lighting Missiles and other 1-shot type units, these strike all units in range for the damage listed.

Second is capped, single hit. Used by most AoE in the game, such as Grenade Launchers and Flak Turrets, these fire and then explode on the target ship, hitting up to certain number of targets nearby for the same damage. This type also comes in beam form on the zenith beam frigate, except instead of it hitting targets in range, it hits targets touched by its beam up to the cap on the targets in can hit.

Third is Electric Shuttles (and the units based off them). Each salvo from this ship has 200 'shots' and all shots hit a target in range, but only up to 5 times maximum per target. So if there are > 200 targets in range, 200 of the targets in range get hit once. If there are between 41 and 200 targets, each target gets hit multiple times until all 200 shots are used. If there are less then 40 ships in range, each ship in range gets hit by 5 shots and the rest of that salvo is wasted.

I suppose there are 4 actually, Plasma Siege Starships are weird enough they qualify as their own AoE type, but that ship description has how they work.

D.

[Cyborg]

We need a list of the uncapped for those of us that play on high capacity.

[keith.lamothe]

As far as human-usable things, Uncapped: Lightning Missiles, Martyrs, and Tazers.

Lightning missiles might get a cap (like the electric-shuttle/lightning-turret one), but not to nerf them, rather to let me buff their attack power to something more respectable.  Truly uncapped aoe is basically unbalanceable; it'll either stink because it's so low in magnitude or be incredibly OP because theoretical AI ship density is nearly infinite (in theory, I think it's hard to create a situation with more than 5000 AI ships on a single planet and not in a carrier).

Tazers are ok because their damage is really low and not the point of the unit. 

Martyrs... are martyrs.  Hilariously overpowered, a definite case of "it's not really balanced, but it still makes the game more fun, so it can stay that way".

[TechSY730]

Don't forget about area mines. Those also have an unbounded number of things each "detonation" can get.

Also, there has been complaints about lightning warheads?
Even at Mk. I they can one shot almost all Mk. I fleet ships, and most Mk. IIs
Sure, they start to struggle against Mk. IVs and up, requiring 2 or 3 of them to take those out. But I never really expected Mk. I lightning warheads to be able to one shot a Mk. IV armada.
That is what Mk. II and III is for.
Also, all lightning warheads do jack to missile frigates, thanks to their AOE immunity. But that is not that big a deal.

EDIT: Wow, typos all over the place (that I have now fixed). I really need to stop posting with my phone.

[keith.lamothe]

Don't forget about area mines. Those also have an unbounded number of things each "detonation" can get.

They actually got a cap a few versions ago, it allowed me to give them an actual attack power.

And maybe lightning warheads are fine, I just remember seeing feedback about them being very underwhelming from several folks not terribly long ago.

[Diazo]

I think Lighting Warheads are okay as is pretty much.

The only time I've gone and felt I wasted one was just after Space Planes got the AOE immunity, had 450 of them sitting on the other side of a wormhole laugh my warhead off.

I actually fear double size frigate waves more then bombers waves now. I can warhead the bomber wave if my defences are out of position, can't do that on frigate waves....

D.

[TechSY730]

What do people think about giving lightning warheads the same buff martyrs got, "immunity to AOE immunity"?

[Toranth]

And maybe lightning warheads are fine, I just remember seeing feedback about them being very underwhelming from several folks not terribly long ago.

Well, there are a couple of things that keep me from (ab)using them much.
1)  They cause AIP
2)  Threat ball often consists of many Frigates and Carriers.  Frigates are immune.  Carriers have so many HP, 3 MK IIIs are needed to kill just one.
3)  They don't scale with unit caps.  On ultra-low caps, it takes a Mk III warhead to take out most fleet ships - and even that isn't enough for some.
4)  Warhead interceptors.  Core worlds and homeworlds, where they'd be most useful, are effectively immune.
5)  The small area of effect.  Related, the fact that the Mk III has half the radius of the Mk I.
And finally,
6) Martyrs.

[Wanderer]

And maybe lightning warheads are fine, I just remember seeing feedback about them being very underwhelming from several folks not terribly long ago.

Well, there are a couple of things that keep me from (ab)using them much.
1)  They cause AIP
2)  Threat ball often consists of many Frigates and Carriers.  Frigates are immune.  Carriers have so many HP, 3 MK IIIs are needed to kill just one.
3)  They don't scale with unit caps.  On ultra-low caps, it takes a Mk III warhead to take out most fleet ships - and even that isn't enough for some.
4)  Warhead interceptors.  Core worlds and homeworlds, where they'd be most useful, are effectively immune.
5)  The small area of effect.  Related, the fact that the Mk III has half the radius of the Mk I.
And finally,
6) Martyrs.

Other than #6, I believe my list is pretty much equivalent here.  It's sad when I'll build off two MK Is instead of a MK II not because of damage, but because the range of the MK I gives me more kills for the same AIP increase.  MK III is practically pointless on threat-ball removal.

[Diazo]

Lightning warhead damage does not increase as ship caps go down? Ouch.

On normal they are quite useful, I can see how on low or ultra-low they would become much less useful for the AIP increase they cause.

D.