Matchmaking Discussion ...again.

[Rivaryn]

I know this is a rather sore topic, so let me preface it with the following:

• I have read through a lot of the wiki for the game in general
• I have joined the Steam Group Chat (nobody else is ever there) and connected to the IRC channel.
• I have read through this topic in its entirety (though i skimmed the part where it got derailed into a LoL/Tribunal discussion).
• I do software development as my job, so I may not know what the AI War code is like, but i understand programming and thus recognize the difficulty, cost vs benefit, etc of requested features.

All that being said, I'd like to start a discussion on an alternative idea that may not have been considered previously to implement some sort of matchmaking feature.  Simply put, pass it off to the community.

One of the biggest examples of a community working together that I've seen so far is the enb-emulator project.  This project was to resurrect the game Earth and Beyond, an MMO, after EA Games killed it.  It took at least 7 years to rewrite the server from scratch but was entirely driven by the community and is now live and fully functioning, plus has new content and updates.  The point is that generally speaking, there are individuals in the community willing to put effort into a task because they like the game, the community, and have the desire to improve it.

The Idea
The general idea i had was to add a few 'command line arguments' or equivalent, to set up multiplayer, then simply leave the actual matchmaking/chat client to the community.  My specific idea was some sort of simple chat program, where users configured what times they were available, connected to a server, and then the client could ask for users with similar schedules.  There is something similar in EVE Online for finding a guild (corporation) based on active time (see the screenshot on this EVE Wiki page).  Additionally a 'lobby' and possibly public/private channels might be implemented.  An icon next to the username could list whether the user is ingame (not 100% sure on detection of that), whether they can host (user runs a 'host' test and chat server attempts the UDP connection.  AI War must be running.  if successful, they get a different icon), or if they're simply in chat.

To set up the actual game, once a group is ready the chat client can simply launch AIWar with some command line params to tell it how to behave once its loaded up.  For example, "-h" could mean host new game, while "-h [savegame]" could tell it to load [savegame] as a host.  "-c [IP Address]" could tell it to try and join a Direct Connect game using [IP Address].

From what I know of programming, it tends to be fairly straightforward to accept and process command-line arguments, and I believe you already have something triggering at the end of the load, mainly the story/credits scrolling.  But as I don't know the actual code, I certainly can't say definitively what kind of time it would take to implement this.

I welcome comments and suggestions.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

The problem isn't implementing match-making, it's just that match-making is just not very usable for AIW. When matches take upwards of 10-20-30 hours, it's better to create matches with people you get to know, rather than random strangers. Yeah, that isn't very easy to find people willing to play with you. Trust me, I know the feeling.

Anyways, it looks like they may implement IRC as a chat client soon (maybe) so that might solve some of the problems.

[Tridus]

The best option I saw in the thread IMO was including an IRC client and having the ability to start/join matches from there.

Far as matchmaking itself goes, Steamworks provides everything you need to do it already (at least for Steam users of the game, which based on the sales numbers posted recently seem to be the majority case these days).

You're right that most likely, just responding to command line switches won't be overly difficult (obviously I haven't seen the AIW code). I also don't think it's going to be used very much, compared to a more integrated solution (like the IRC client or Steam matchmaking). All a matter of the effort required for each option, I suppose.

[Rivaryn]

Far as matchmaking itself goes, Steamworks provides everything you need to do it already (at least for Steam users of the game, which based on the sales numbers posted recently seem to be the majority case these days).

In the previous topic I read (and linked in my bullets), they stated they didn't want to integrate steamworks because it locked them into only Steam.  As for the IRC client, i agree that it's a good idea, but implementing it could possibly be a much larger undertaking.  The reason i suggest what I did is to try and cut down on the work Arcen Games needs to do as much as possible, so they can focus on more important issues/updates/expansions.

[Tridus]

Far as matchmaking itself goes, Steamworks provides everything you need to do it already (at least for Steam users of the game, which based on the sales numbers posted recently seem to be the majority case these days).

In the previous topic I read (and linked in my bullets), they stated they didn't want to integrate steamworks because it locked them into only Steam.  As for the IRC client, i agree that it's a good idea, but implementing it could possibly be a much larger undertaking.  The reason i suggest what I did is to try and cut down on the work Arcen Games needs to do as much as possible, so they can focus on more important issues/updates/expansions.

Yeah I get that. It's just that the IRC client is already a popular request in the big items for 8.0 poll. It's possible that it might happen due to its popularity. If it's a small amount of work to integrate match joining through there, it seems like a decent way to solve two requests at once.

As for Steamworks, Steam Achievements are already in the game and they just don't work if you're using other platforms. Maybe Steamworks matchmaking could be the same way, for people not running through Steam. It's got the disadvantage of being Steam only, but the advantage of being an already proven method that's reasonably easy to integrate.

[doctorfrog]

The best option I saw in the thread IMO was including an IRC client and having the ability to start/join matches from there.

Far as matchmaking itself goes, Steamworks provides everything you need to do it already (at least for Steam users of the game, which based on the sales numbers posted recently seem to be the majority case these days).

You're right that most likely, just responding to command line switches won't be overly difficult (obviously I haven't seen the AIW code). I also don't think it's going to be used very much, compared to a more integrated solution (like the IRC client or Steam matchmaking). All a matter of the effort required for each option, I suppose.

I hadn't thought of Arcen rolling their own separate IRC app before. There have got to be some open-source IRC clients out there that they could modify and brand, right? I kind of doubt they'd be up for it, but it's a pretty neat idea, and may foster a more lively multi scene, the same way that a built-in IRC client would, if not better, because it could potentially be running in the background even when the game isn't running.

You'd install AI War, and the standalone IRC client would come with it, with the Arcen IRC server (not yet existing) pre-configured in it, along with a prompt to pick a user name, and a link to the code of conduct. The user would be informed on installation that the program is a simple IRC client and that using it is entirely optional, but it would also ask if you want to start it with Windows, or perhaps start it every time the game is started.

Specially formatted IRC messages could, as described, launch the game with command switches. If the client allows it, you could even have custom sounds and little notifications. "doctorfrog has started a game, click here to join." Stuff like that. I've even seen chat bots that handle scheduling or store messages for when people go offline.

In this way, instead of manually adding yourself to a Steam group, you'd automatically (if you opt-in) join the IRC group. Even if you don't get instant multiplayer, you're still part of a growing scene, perhaps in a more meaningful way than belonging to a Steam group.

This could also potentially help new users overcome the first big hurdle of basic understanding of the game. Personally, my eyes glass over when I'm told to look at a Wiki or ask questions on a forum. As great as both of these online sources can be, especially with a community like this, sometimes you just want a simple answer to a simple question without searching through unrelated material or creating a post. Having instant access to huge game nerds can help.

This assumes a lot about player behavior though, and as you point out, Steam does all this pretty slickly on its own. Arcen would also need a good open-source client to modify, with a liberal enough copyright, as well as the will to do so. But it might be less of a pain than getting IRC to work directly in Unity.

[Rivaryn]

I hadn't thought of Arcen rolling their own separate IRC app before.

You'd install AI War, and the standalone IRC client would come with it, with the Arcen IRC server (not yet existing) pre-configured in it, along with a prompt to pick a user name, and a link to the code of conduct. The user would be informed on installation that the program is a simple IRC client and that using it is entirely optional, but it would also ask if you want to start it with Windows, or perhaps start it every time the game is started.

Specially formatted IRC messages could, as described, launch the game with command switches. If the client allows it, you could even have custom sounds and little notifications. "doctorfrog has started a game, click here to join." Stuff like that. I've even seen chat bots that handle scheduling or store messages for when people go offline.

I completely agree with you.  But it doesn't even have to be IRC, it could be any client if the command line switches (or some other external control) existed.  Whatever program ended up being 'best' would probably be used by most of the community.  And with most games, community members are willing to provide solutions when there's the ability to actually make them viable.  If it ends up being an IRC solution, great.  If not, great.

[Aklyon]

Well as far as I know, theres 3 main ways to communicate to someone on the internet to pick from, +1 if you count skype (since I don't know if you could actually integrate that to anything like the others)
1, IRC.
2, voice comms of your choice, with or without text-to-speech (TS3, mumble, vent, etc)
3, steam chat (technically already integrated in any version run through steam, but you have to open the overlay and be friends or be invited to a chat to make it work and that takes effort )

[Lord Fiddlemeister]

A community which has organized multiple rounds lately is Bay12. It won't solve the overlaying problem but you might be able to get a group going by posting in this thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125069.0