Question about the Golemite AI

[TIE Viper]

The roomie and I are currently playing a game with a Golemite AI and noticed the AI Botnet Golem has only a crazy small amount of health.  I think it was only 3.6 million hp.  During gameplay I didn't notice until we were about to charge one with our starships and my raids effectively one-shot it with their first volley.

EDIT: I tried looking up AI Golem info on the wiki page but didn't find any or was possibly (but I don't think I was) looking in the wrong part of it.

Is this supposed to be the correct amount of health?

Normally I would figure AI Botnet Golems are supposed to be resistant to being sneezed on...

[Bognor]

Golemite Botnet Golems are intended to have lower health than the other Golemite Golems, though I'll leave it to others to judge whether the balance is appropriate:

* As an honorable mention from the seventh worst-unit poll, the Golemite-AI-type golems (as distinct from human golems and exo golems), except for the Golemite-Botnet, have had their health increased from 0.1 times the normal version of that golem => 0.5 times that normal value.

  *  Specifically, this means the Golemite-Armored, Golemite-Artillery, Golemite-Widow, and Golemite-Regenerator golems. There are no golemite versions of the other types (except the botnet, which was purposefully skipped in this instance; Botnets are terrors upon the galaxy).

[TIE Viper]

Yeah, I remember that excerpt from the patch release notes.  The health for the other golems seems good because they can still be tricky to deal with.  However, the Botnet at only 3.6 million health really poses no threat at all.  I think that it should have enough health that my starting cap of starships has to hang around shooting it at least long enough to be at significant risk of being hurt badly by the other stuff on the planet as I'm taking out the Botnet

[ZaneWolfe]

While this is all true I will also point the out the counter balance here... if you throw anything that is reclaimable against an AI Botnet Golem it is bucked. Unless you throw massive numbers at it then even with only 3mil HP it will still devour everything reclaimable. It make sense that you can kill it easily with starships or low-cap/non-reclaimable units. Those are the things only real weakness. Even with its low HP it can still devour entire caps of reclaimable ships with ease.

[LaughingThesaurus]

There's also the fact that the botnet is kind of built to snowball out of control as well. Like, it fires a massive salvo and reclaims everything nearby. Then if it lives long enough, well, it just reclaimed everything else nearby. For every ship you lose, the enemy gains a ship. You're in some pretty serious trouble if it does get some good reclamation shots off, because suddenly, you don't have a fleet anymore and the AI just got a really big nice fleet.

[TIE Viper]

Yes, agreed, but anyone who reads the tooltip descriptions will understand that the best way to fight a Botnet is with reclamation immune ships.  Given that fact and like I said above, I think it should have more HP so it can make more of a difference in the overall battle by taking time to absorb some damage rather than dieing in less than 3 seconds.

A full cap of Mk. I-III Raid Starships one-shot it.  I have more to fear from a group of mark I missile frigates or a special forces guard post than from an AI Botnet.  Obviously starships are a hard counter to a Botnet and I don't mind that at all, but the only thing that should possibly one-shot ANY golem, AI or otherwise, is an Artillery Golem or a gianormous fleetball, etc. 

The AI Botnet needs more durability to last longer, it's too fragile.

I'll submit a mantis report with a save file in case anyone is curious exactly what I'm talking about.  Disable player one, then pause, go to planet Sarasota (2nd ring from the center, at about where 5:30 would be on a clock, labeled P1,) and judge for yourself.

Mantis link: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11786

[Histidine]

3.6 million? My grandma has more HP than that and she's been dead for years!

Maybe AI botnets could have more health, lower rate of fire. Maybe player botnets could too, actually.

[Toranth]

3.6 million? My grandma has more HP than that and she's been dead for years!

Really?  How much m + c does she take to reactivate, and what's her DPS?

(sorry)

More seriously, I suspect that this is something that'll be addressed as part of the entire "Rebalance Superweapons" thing.  Would you still say 3.6 million was too little if every fleetship and starship lost two zeros?

[TIE Viper]

More seriously, I suspect that this is something that'll be addressed as part of the entire "Rebalance Superweapons" thing.  Would you still say 3.6 million was too little if every fleetship and starship lost two zeros?

Dropping the two zeros from everything else might indeed make its current 3.6M HP balanced or al least closer to balanced.  Currently the AI Kleenex Golem does try really really hard to be a Botnet, but it doesn't quite make it considering is constructed out of tissue paper.   

[barryvm]

Sorry for posting slightly off topic on this one, but I have a couple of questions about the golemite AI and found this thread (apparently finished):

I started up a new game yesterday and am playing against a golemite AI (which I hadn't had the pleasure of meeting before).

In the wikis, it is mentioned you should destroy all golems on a planet "to avoid the AIP increase  on repair". Does this mean there will always be an AIP increase whenever the AI repairs its golems after an unsuccessfull attack on the planet, or is it influenced by the "broken golems hard" option ?

Does the AI use broken golems in it's waves (that would be fun) ? I have just started the game so waves are fairly small (120 AIP).

Can the AI use reinforcement points to spawn new golems or can I use tactical strikes to take them out and not worry about them afterwards ?

[Diazo]

Sorry for posting slightly off topic on this one, but I have a couple of questions about the golemite AI and found this thread (apparently finished):

No worries, it still bumps the thread for everyone to see. 

I started up a new game yesterday and am playing against a golemite AI (which I hadn't had the pleasure of meeting before).

In the wikis, it is mentioned you should destroy all golems on a planet "to avoid the AIP increase  on repair". Does this mean there will always be an AIP increase whenever the AI repairs its golems after an unsuccessfull attack on the planet, or is it influenced by the "broken golems hard" option ?

Erg, that was old information. Repairing Golems does not cause AIP increases in AI hands, and only on Medium when in player hands. (AI types page tweaked on the wiki.)

Does the AI use broken golems in it's waves (that would be fun) ? I have just started the game so waves are fairly small (120 AIP).

Actually, I'm not sure. I don't think it does but I'm not certain enough to say for sure that it does not.

Can the AI use reinforcement points to spawn new golems or can I use tactical strikes to take them out and not worry about them afterwards ?

Again, I'm pretty sure that Golems will not show up as reinforcement, only on game start so taking them out with tactical strikes should be viable. Again, not 100% sure though.

Let us know how it goes,

D.

[barryvm]

Let us know how it goes

: Badly.

I only realized that the AI was a golemite after I entered a system with my entire fleet, containing (as I thought) a broken botnet and hive golem.
Regrettable, I had to cancel the victory parade.
Luckily most of the ships were shredded by hybrids before they could be zombified, but not before I'd given the AI a nice present of two caps of space planes  .
They have been distracted by my defences so far, so I think I will try to build as many spire rams as possible now or capture the second fallen spire shard to counter te golems.

At first glance, the AI indead doesn't get new golems and there are no AIP increases.
The AI does repair the golems though.

[TIE Viper]

If you accidentally run into another Botnet with your fleet ball, just charge it with your reclamation immune stuff (starships, parasites, etc) and retreat with everything else.  You should kill it fairly quickly.  They do not have much HP.

[barryvm]

Yep, the problem is I thought it a broken botnet golem (didn't pay attention to the tooltip) and charged right in to conquer the planet .
Anyway, I've got a spire fleet and Mk II plasma siege starships now, so it shouldn't be a problem to finish it off.
Thanks for the tip on the HP, it seems they have a lot less HP than the player versions.

[Vacuity]

3.6 million? My grandma has more HP than that and she's been dead for years!

I believe the "correct" response to this is something like:

"Undead, you mean."

Assuming it's intended to be a quote from a particular game created by a French studio.  If it's not intended as a reference/quote, sorry and just ignore me.

Umm, and yes, golemite AIs.  Haven't played against one yet.  I should start anaother game sometime soon and try that AI out.  Yes, I'm completely on topic here.