Question about captive human settlements and Golems AIP

[Ozymandiaz]

I am just wondering why the AIP goes up if a Golem is killed, or a human settelemnt is nuked? And similar structures I own that the AI would really benefit if I lost.

I understand a Golem being repaird makes AIP go up, and the AI is in its right to get scared of that, but why when it dies?

Same with Rebel human settlements that die, they Rebel and is killed, but AIP goes up.

I can understand it from a game mechanics perspective (making caputuring planets with settlemts and wasting Golems bad business), but just wondering why the AI gets "more mad" when it i.e actually kills off some human rebel structures or neturalizes the Golems .

Its not a complaint or anything like that, just wondering

[x4000]

Cross-posted from a very obscure location, I really do need to add this to the wiki at some point.

Regarding the AI Progress, that's the most general ecompassing term I could come up with (and it's far too late to rename something so fundamental now, at any rate).  Some people have referred to it as the AI "rageometer," which I found amusing.  But, the AI Progress is a measure, really, of the following combined factors:

- How annoyed it is at you (rageometer).
- How big a threat it thinks you are (being frightened by things such as golems or warheads).
- How ready it is to do anything about that (how much of its production potential is devoted to thwarting you).

Given those sort of interrelating factors, I went with a somewhat-generic-but-descriptive name of AI Progress in order to try to encompass all three.  I perhaps could have split out those sorts of things into multiple meters (AI Rage, AI Intimidatedness, AI Preparedness, or something), but I think that would have been prohibitively complex in practice.

So, in that sense, it's not anger, but rather the AI seeing you as more of a threat to itself.  Let me give another animal example, as I like to do.  Suppose you have a cat, and it has claws, but never attacks you.  Your estimation of that cat as a threat is very low.  But, let's suppose that cat then does something threatening, like arching its back or swatting at you -- even if it does not hurt you in any way, you still think of it as being more of a danger.  In many ways, this is why the Golems, even when dying are considered a threat by the AI -- okay, that golem is dead, but these human build golems now, evidently.  So, logically, if I killed the one are they going to try something else that I don't know about directly?

The other case, regarding the captive human settlements, again works best as a pet analogy.  Let's suppose you have a dog that you keep in the house, and he is known for trying to escape out the door when you open it.  That makes you take steps to try to contain him, and thus puts you more on guard with the dog not because of danger to yourself, but because you want to keep him contained and he is trying to thwart that.  With the captive human settlements and rebel colonies, those were assumedly captive for a reason, and so if the AI then is losing control of them, that is cause for concern to it.  The dog is escaping, or got out and then got itself killed.  The AI has a lot of captive human settlements, and an uprising or an escape in one (especially if one is annihilated) might logically spawn rebellions or trouble in the others.  Hence, the AI's level of concern again rises -- just what are those pesky humans up to, and what might they do next?

I definitely need to add this to the wiki, I will do that momentarily.

[Ozymandiaz]

Cross-posted from a very obscure location, I really do need to add this to the wiki at some point.

Regarding the AI Progress, that's the most general ecompassing term I could come up with (and it's far too late to rename something so fundamental now, at any rate).  Some people have referred to it as the AI "rageometer," which I found amusing.  But, the AI Progress is a measure, really, of the following combined factors:

- How annoyed it is at you (rageometer).
- How big a threat it thinks you are (being frightened by things such as golems or warheads).
- How ready it is to do anything about that (how much of its production potential is devoted to thwarting you).

Given those sort of interrelating factors, I went with a somewhat-generic-but-descriptive name of AI Progress in order to try to encompass all three.  I perhaps could have split out those sorts of things into multiple meters (AI Rage, AI Intimidatedness, AI Preparedness, or something), but I think that would have been prohibitively complex in practice.

So, in that sense, it's not anger, but rather the AI seeing you as more of a threat to itself.  Let me give another animal example, as I like to do.  Suppose you have a cat, and it has claws, but never attacks you.  Your estimation of that cat as a threat is very low.  But, let's suppose that cat then does something threatening, like arching its back or swatting at you -- even if it does not hurt you in any way, you still think of it as being more of a danger.  In many ways, this is why the Golems, even when dying are considered a threat by the AI -- okay, that golem is dead, but these human build golems now, evidently.  So, logically, if I killed the one are they going to try something else that I don't know about directly?

The other case, regarding the captive human settlements, again works best as a pet analogy.  Let's suppose you have a dog that you keep in the house, and he is known for trying to escape out the door when you open it.  That makes you take steps to try to contain him, and thus puts you more on guard with the dog not because of danger to yourself, but because you want to keep him contained and he is trying to thwart that.  With the captive human settlements and rebel colonies, those were assumedly captive for a reason, and so if the AI then is losing control of them, that is cause for concern to it.  The dog is escaping, or got out and then got itself killed.  The AI has a lot of captive human settlements, and an uprising or an escape in one (especially if one is annihilated) might logically spawn rebellions or trouble in the others.  Hence, the AI's level of concern again rises -- just what are those pesky humans up to, and what might they do next?

I definitely need to add this to the wiki, I will do that momentarily.

Makes sense.

I guess I was seeing it only from my point of view in that if I lost someting, it would weaken me and the AI would see that as well, and I would not be a big a threat as I was. But of course if I get weakend, the AI got more reason to push on in its pursuist to wipe me out.

[HellishFiend]

Makes sense.

I guess I was seeing it only from my point of view in that if I lost someting, it would weaken me and the AI would see that as well, and I would not be a big a threat as I was. But of course if I get weakend, the AI got more reason to push on in its pursuist to wipe me out.

The way I see it, what X is trying to say is that the AI views it as "we just dodged a bullet, and now we gotta take these guys more seriously." Its like if youre talking to some pissed off guy, and he takes a swing at you, misses, and falls flat on his face.  Sure, he missed and fell on his face, but when gets back up, youre going to be a lot MORE worried about him throwing another punch that might hit, as opposed to LESS worried than before he had thrown the punch.

[x4000]

Makes sense.

I guess I was seeing it only from my point of view in that if I lost someting, it would weaken me and the AI would see that as well, and I would not be a big a threat as I was. But of course if I get weakend, the AI got more reason to push on in its pursuist to wipe me out.

The way I see it, what X is trying to say is that the AI views is as "we just dodged a bullet, and now we gotta take these guys more seriously." Its like if youre talking to some pissed off guy, and he takes a swing at you, misses, and falls flat on his face.  Sure, he missed and fell on his face, but when gets back up, youre going to be a lot MORE worried about him throwing another punch that might hit, as opposed to LESS worried than before he had thrown the punch.

Exactly!

[Doddler]

Do you still gain AI progress for having golems killed?  It didn't show on the golem's text last I checked.  Personally I think the 100 AI progress to build the golem is enough of a detriment, combined with any AI progress you incur keeping it alive.  I've never used golems at all myself because I can't justify the current penalties.

[x4000]

Do you still gain AI progress for having golems killed?  It didn't show on the golem's text last I checked.  Personally I think the 100 AI progress to build the golem is enough of a detriment, combined with any AI progress you incur keeping it alive.  I've never used golems at all myself because I can't justify the current penalties.

It depends on the golem, you were probably looking at one of the few that did not.  For my long explanation and ratinale for and against the use of golems in various scenarios, you might be interested in this wiki topic.  They are useful, but not to be casually used.  In essence, they will accelerate the game one way or the other -- to your death or victory, getting you closer to one or the other depending on how well you do with them. 

They aren't meant to be used every game, as a simple matter of habit, because then the game would just become a race to the golems and everything else about the game would become less useful by comparison.  Instead, they are meant to be more rare and exciting, and a key part of occasional strategies that have interesting and different results.  Otherwise, I'd have to make them less powerful, which would also make them less unique and interesting, anyway -- just glorified starships, in essence.  It's a fine line to walk, but I think they serve their niche pretty well at the moment, even if they are scary to use.