Proposed update for the Orbital Mass Driver

[Kahuna]

I dont really understand the issue here.

What you also don't understand is that there are no fleet ships that could replace Raid Starships.

[Draco18s]

I dont really understand the issue here.

What you also don't understand is that there are no fleet ships that could replace Raid Starships.

For what purpose, exactly?

If you want to get under those glass jars there's a bunch of bonus units that can.

Also, an eye does NOT severely limit how many units you can use.  You can still throw a cap of bombers at the problem several times.

[Fluffiest]

Maybe removing the OMD's Fusion Cutter immunity would help a little? That would certainly make it vulnerable to a couple more of the forcefield-ignoring fleet ships, so Raid Starships aren't always the only option. Doesn't help if there's a gravity guardian next to it, but honestly, OMD + glass + gravity + eye is one of those nightmare planets that you just avoid.

[Kahuna]

-______________-
*facepalm*

[Lancefighter]

Maybe something I am not understanding is why youd actually 'raid' an OMD - If you just take your entire fleet, sans starships, and blow it up.. ? Its not like OMDs hurt transports or something? Its the flip side of the way I play things - If I am going to attack a planet, its going to have absolutely no ships vulnerable to instakill.. So ion cannons are never a thing for me. Id imagine its different for others.

Even if you take your starships, under transport/cloaker/whatever, you typically can engage an OMD favorably.

Yes, sure, somtimes the AI does mean things with its collections of defenses (core worlds are great examples of this), but I dont think I've actually had an issue with an OMD in a very long time.

[Kahuna]

Maybe removing the OMD's Fusion Cutter immunity would help a little?

Would help only if you have Vampire Claws as your bonus ships. So I don't think that would change anything.


New OMD suggestions

Version 1
Damage: 1.800.000
Reload Time: 10
Damage Multipliers: 2 Ultra-Heavy, 2 Heavy, 2 Medium, 2 Neutron, 2 Polycrystal, 2 Artillery
If a ship has a cap<=10 OMD should be able to shoot at it.

OR

Version 2
Damage: 5.000.000
Reload Time: 25
If a ship has a cap<=10 OMD should be able to shoot at it.

[Kahuna]

If you just take your entire fleet, sans starships, and blow it up.. ?

Good idea. Brb gonna do this vs a MarkIV world filled with Guardians.

[chemical_art]

If you just take your entire fleet, sans starships, and blow it up.. ?

Good idea. Brb gonna do this vs a MarkIV world filled with Guardians.

That is a false dilemma.

If a world is heavily defended by mobile units, you can send a cap of bombers into the world without waking up the world.

If it is not defended enough that the world is alerted with a cap of unit, you can send in your fleetball and defeat the world's defenders with little losses. As an alternative, bring in fleetball, camp wormhole. Enemy force wakes up. Attack the piecemail units until they are overwhlemed, then retreat. Some of the enemy units will turn into threat and probably leave planet, rest will return to their posts. Once they return, pop in again, wipe out the piecemail units against your ball, retreat if necessary. Repeat till world is to your liking of defenselessness.

If the world has an eye, you send in a mixed fleet of 1.5x times the units, camp the wormhole, and annihilate the fleet as it comes to you piecemeal. When the eye triggers, you can quickly peel away your own units, until you get the world barely defended and can send in half a cap of bombers that will get to the glass mostly intact.

[Kahuna]

Oh no not that again. A cap of bombers alone wont do anything.

[chemical_art]

A cap of bombers alone wont do shit.

A cap of bombers does plenty.

Send a cap of bombers against a guard post with shield, and if said post doesn't have more then 30 or so defenders, the bombers will toast the shield enough to knock out <target, in this case OMD>.

If said target is not under glass, you could do fighters and they'll take out almost any single target sans eyes or forts

[Draco18s]

Send a cap of bombers against a guard post with shield, and if said post doesn't have more then 30 or so defenders, the bombers will toast the shield enough to knock out <target, in this case OMD>.

Even if there ARE more than 30 defenders, you'll still do more damage to that shield than it will regen before you can refleet the lost units and re-attack.

[TechSY730]

Maybe if the AI has almost every sort of strong defensive tool in the game on one planet, maybe it should be rewarded by making the planet so hard to "crack" you are better off skipping it (unless it is mandatory somehow, like an AI homeworld or a planet that MUST be traversed to get to an AI homeworld)?


I would agree that giving the OMD both laser damage reduction AND turret hull would be a bad idea though. One or the other please, but not both.

I am also saddened by the lack of at least moderate speed FF immune fleet ship with good cap damage and somewhat OK cap durability. (we have other FF immune stuff, but they tend to have TWO OF the following: slow, have poor cap durability, or have poor cap damage. I would like at least one fleet ship with FF immunity and only ONE of those weaknesses. If balance is a concern, give it some other weakness not on that list (other than the one selected), but it would be at least useful for tricky raiding situations then). In fact, doesn't the raider fleet ship NOT have FF immunity, which really makes little sense?

Oh no not that again. A cap of bombers alone wont do anything.

What mark of bombers?

Mk. Is won't do much against the kinds of planets that would make OMDs tough to crack, yes. But a cap of Mk. IIIs are quite strong and durable.

[Kahuna]

Send a cap of bombers against a guard post with shield, and if said post doesn't have more then 30 or so defenders, the bombers will toast the shield enough to knock out

false stuff!

[chemical_art]

Send a cap of bombers against a guard post with shield, and if said post doesn't have more then 30 or so defenders, the bombers will toast the shield enough to knock out <target, in this case OMD>.

Even if there ARE more than 30 defenders, you'll still do more damage to that shield than it will regen before you can refleet the lost units and re-attack.

Non spire shields don't regen, period.

Spire shields take 2 hours to regen. I think (at least one hour for sure)

So yes, taking more then one "wave" to knock out the shield is fine if you would rather do that then spend the aip to do a short emp which would knock out non core shields entirely, allowing a 4th cap of bombers to fly over and knock out the omd before the shields return.

[chemical_art]

Maybe if the AI has almost every sort of strong defensive tool in the game on one planet, maybe it should be rewarded by making the planet so hard to "crack" you are better off skipping it (unless it is mandatory somehow, like an AI homeworld or a planet that MUST be traversed to get to an AI homeworld)?

Yes. The player makes use of whipping boys all the time, is it so bad that one planet on one game (for non defensive ais) maybe is a tough nut to crack due to static defense?

I would agree that giving the OMD both laser damage reduction AND turret hull would be a bad idea though. One or the other please, but not both.

Whether or not the laser reduction occurs to the OMD itself, it should be removed I think, since it simply makes no sense.

I am also saddened by the lack of at least moderate speed FF immune fleet ship with good cap damage and somewhat OK cap durability. (we have other FF immune stuff, but they tend to have TWO OF the following: slow, have poor cap durability, or have poor cap damage. I would like at least one fleet ship with FF immunity and only ONE of those weaknesses. If balance is a concern, give it some other weakness not on that list (other than the one selected), but it would be at least useful for tricky raiding situations then). In fact, doesn't the raider fleet ship NOT have FF immunity, which really makes little sense?

Part of the reasoning is that said ship would become the new bomber in ai waves...because shields are such an integral part of the player defense toolbox. A fast, strong ship that could puncture shields will be the ultimate pain in the but for a player. Just imagine if a dozen puncture your shell, and proceed to ravage your inner planets whose main defense is a shield.

Oh no not that again. A cap of bombers alone wont do anything.

What mark of bombers?

Mk. Is won't do much against the kinds of planets that would make OMDs tough to crack, yes. But a cap of Mk. IIIs are quite strong and durable.

Which is why I said a cap of X against X shield. A cap of MK I bombers attacking a III shield of course won't do squat. A cap of III bombers will take out the III shield fine.