AI War Beta 7.015-7.016 "Cleanup, Aisle 3" Released!

[Oralordos]

The auto updater exe in the steam folder is not supposed to be run by itself. When you start the game it should check for updates and put a button up that will download the updates and put them where they need to be for the auto updater to install them, then it automatically exits out and starts the auto updater. There is a stickied thread in the technical support sub-forum for manually updating the game as well if that is not working too.

[RockyBst]

Hmm, so I think the salvage waves on my current game are broken. I see the 'Level 1' warning pop up from time to time, but I never seem to actually get any reprisal waves. Don't have advanced logging enabled on this machine, and I'm not seeing anything in the debug logs. Is anyone else seeing this?

[keith.lamothe]

Hmm, so I think the salvage waves on my current game are broken. I see the 'Level 1' warning pop up from time to time, but I never seem to actually get any reprisal waves. Don't have advanced logging enabled on this machine, and I'm not seeing anything in the debug logs. Is anyone else seeing this?

Bear in mind that as AIP and such goes up, the normal wave size goes up, which means the reprisal threshold goes up.  If the threshold goes back up above the actual available reprisal strength your warning-level message will disappear.

If that's not a likely explanation, please turn on advanced logging and see what the wave logs see after, say, 5 game-minutes

[RockyBst]

Okay, so I just rammed 2,000 odd ships into the AI chipper grinder to trigger a salvage reprisal. Here's the last two entries in my waves log:

3/30/2014 11:05:25 AM (7.016)
-----------------------------------
Salvage-Reprisal Wave Check; Current Game Time: 13:43:01
= Salvage is non-zero, so checking if player 8's AISalvage is high enough for a salvage-reprisal wave
AISalvage: 10331050
difficultyMultiplier = 0.7
timeMultiplier = Min(1,(current_game_time/2_hours)) = 1
effectiveMetalForSalvageWave = floor(AISalvage * difficultyMultiplier * timeMultiplier) = 7231230
referenceMetalCost = (metal cost of a mkI bomber in this game) = 1600
referenceStrength = (strength of a mkI bomber in this game) = 2
metalToStrengthRatio = referenceStrength / referenceMetalCost = 0.00122
= potentialSalvageStrength = effectiveMetalForSalvageWave * metalToStrengthRatio = 8827.19
computing strength budget of a normal wave for threshold check
FleetShipBudget = (base value, equivalent to a single mkI fighter on high caps) = 1
FleetShipBudget *= AITechLevel = 2
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromWaveInterval = 2
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromHumanHomePlanetCount = 4
FleetShipBudget *= EffectiveAIP = 1180
FleetShipBudget *= player.GetHandicapMultiplier() = 1180
preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.AIDifficulty / ( 13 - player.AIDifficulty ) = 2.25
FleetShipBudget *= preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 2655
FleetShipBudget *= player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier = 2655
postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = (if <= 3 then 1, <= 4 : 1.5, <= 5 : 1.75, <= 6 : 2, <= 7 : 2.25, <= 9 : 2.5, <= 9.3 : 2.9, <= 9.6 : 3.3, <= 9.8 : 4, 10 : 5) : 2.5
FleetShipBudget *= postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 6637.5
= Enough salvage strength to launch a salvage-reprisal, so calling TriggerNormalWave with OverrideStrength = 8827.19


3/30/2014 11:05:27 AM (7.016)
-----------------------------------
Salvage-Reprisal Wave Check; Current Game Time: 13:43:03
= Salvage is non-zero, so checking if player 9's AISalvage is high enough for a salvage-reprisal wave
AISalvage: 7168429
difficultyMultiplier = 0.7
timeMultiplier = Min(1,(current_game_time/2_hours)) = 1
effectiveMetalForSalvageWave = floor(AISalvage * difficultyMultiplier * timeMultiplier) = 5017550
referenceMetalCost = (metal cost of a mkI bomber in this game) = 1600
referenceStrength = (strength of a mkI bomber in this game) = 2
metalToStrengthRatio = referenceStrength / referenceMetalCost = 0.00122
= potentialSalvageStrength = effectiveMetalForSalvageWave * metalToStrengthRatio = 6124.94
computing strength budget of a normal wave for threshold check
FleetShipBudget = (base value, equivalent to a single mkI fighter on high caps) = 1
FleetShipBudget *= AITechLevel = 2
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromWaveInterval = 2
FleetShipBudget *= MultiplierFromHumanHomePlanetCount = 4
FleetShipBudget *= EffectiveAIP = 1180
FleetShipBudget *= player.GetHandicapMultiplier() = 1180
preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = player.AIDifficulty / ( 13 - player.AIDifficulty ) = 2.25
FleetShipBudget *= preMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 2655
FleetShipBudget *= player.AITypeData.WaveSizeMultiplier = 2655
postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = (if <= 3 then 1, <= 4 : 1.5, <= 5 : 1.75, <= 6 : 2, <= 7 : 2.25, <= 9 : 2.5, <= 9.3 : 2.9, <= 9.6 : 3.3, <= 9.8 : 4, 10 : 5) : 2.5
FleetShipBudget *= postMinStep_DifficultyMultiplier = 6637.5
= not enough salvage strength to launch a salvage-reprisal, so we'll check again in about 3 minutes

The problem is ... that 8827 strength wave was never launched. Just literally never showed. I can't find any errors in the logs or anything, it just seems to vanish into the ether.

EDIT: Attatched a save file.

EDIT Again: The plot thickens. I just got a reprisal wave ... from AI 9. This one came with the proper CreateWaveToPlanet log entry and actually showed up. Is it possible that AI 8 is broken for reprisal waves?

For reference, one of the AIs is Heroic with a bouncer sub-type, and the other is a Shield Ninny with a support corps sub-type. Thinking about it, that second one doesn't sends waves at all normally. So is the AI doesn't send normal waves, it doesn't send reprisal waves either?

[Toranth]

For reference, one of the AIs is Heroic with a bouncer sub-type, and the other is a Shield Ninny with a support corps sub-type. Thinking about it, that second one doesn't sends waves at all normally. So is the AI doesn't send normal waves, it doesn't send reprisal waves either?

it looks like just as some AI types don't send normal waves, those types don't get Reprisal waves either.  That's nice to know.  The Reprisal warning goees away whenever the AI WOULD have sent a wave.
The No Wave Warnings means you don't get a wave announcement, but there's a hint since the Reprisal Level warning disappears.
The Cross-planet Waves option applies to Reprisals, making them appear at a random AI system, just like normal waves.
The Double Waves option lowers the threshold by 1/2, but doesn't impact the strength of the resulting Reprisal wave.
The 1/2 Waves option doubles the threshold, but doesn't impact the strength of the resulting Reprisal wave.
The No Waves option makes them go away - Sort of.

PS - Is there anything above Reprisal Level 5?

It will happily keep doubling the threshold and keep counting up.  Very happily.

This may be been said too soon.  I haven't yet managed to cause an overflow, but I did discover that after you pass Reprisal Level 15, instead of displaying level 16, the warning simply disappears.

After a while, though, if I keep killing stuff, it comes back again. 

I think the reason for this is that AI types that don't send waves still call the wave check function, it just never produces a wave.  On the other hand, the No Waves lobby option prevents any wave checking at all.  So all that salvage just kept building up, up, up... Sarah Sylvia Cynthia Stout must have been running the salvage operation for those AIs.

Oddly enough, I don't think it was causing any problems.  I played the game for an hour or two after wrapping the Reprisal level around a few times, and it just kept going.
But a 32768 times wave would have been interesting.  If it didn't crash my computer, at least.

[keith.lamothe]

New one

[ulu]

For reference, one of the AIs is Heroic with a bouncer sub-type, and the other is a Shield Ninny with a support corps sub-type. Thinking about it, that second one doesn't sends waves at all normally. So is the AI doesn't send normal waves, it doesn't send reprisal waves either?

it looks like just as some AI types don't send normal waves, those types don't get Reprisal waves either.  That's nice to know.  The Reprisal warning goees away whenever the AI WOULD have sent a wave.

Can someone explain this in more detail, please?
Today I played against a ShieldNinny and a Turtle AI and got no reprisal waves. But does the AI get more reinforcements instead of the reprisal wave or anything else?

[tadrinth]

If I remember correctly, Turtles and ShieldNinnies get a lot more defensive stuff in their systems.  Definitely more AI Eyes, and I believe more ion cannons, fortresses, and orbital mass drivers, as well.  Turtles do get extra reinforcements, as well, according to the wiki page, but I'm not sure exactly how much more: http://www.arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_AI_Opponent_Types

[Arc-3N-4B]

I believe he means "what does the salvage mechanic mean for an AI type without waves (and thus without reprisals)"

[ulu]

I believe he means "what does the salvage mechanic mean for an AI type without waves (and thus without reprisals)"

Exactly

[ZaneWolfe]

I believe he means "what does the salvage mechanic mean for an AI type without waves (and thus without reprisals)"

Exactly

Last time I checked, nothing. The AI doesn't get anything if it can't send reprisal waves.