Procedurally generated games are the best

[blastpop]

Don't get me going with Monopoly. A game that I play only because my wife or son want to play... I think it does more to keep people from the playing of board games then encourage. Its design may be "classic" cough, cough but is hardly state of the art - just my opinion though.

Many moons ago I played Seven Cities of Gold by EA in their early days. A random world and one in which you could create a unique story with all the games variation. So with AI War with the random map and force variability in its own way, satisfies more or less the same itch.

[Cyborg]

I think it is the players. I am a board game publisher-

Are you the one responsible for modifying the game "risk!"? There is a game that has randomness but also probabilities that the player can influence. Whoever came out with that last risk video game totally failed.

I also object to miniature plastic pieces with flat bases. All they do is tip over, and you may as well go back to wooden cubes.

[Nalgas]

Don't get me going with Monopoly. A game that I play only because my wife or son want to play... I think it does more to keep people from the playing of board games then encourage. Its design may be "classic" cough, cough but is hardly state of the art - just my opinion though.

I've found plenty of people who share that opinion.  It's games like that that lead to people thinking of board games as those things you have to put up with when you're hanging out with your family when visiting them for holidays.  Risk is a bit better in some ways, but some issues have turned up with it over the years, too.  If you can convince them to play something accessible but that's learned from the decades of advances in game design since that time, like the ever-popular Settlers of Catan, a lot of them have this revelation that, holy crap, they can actually be fun.

[laughingman]

I leave this thread to play my latest campaign and sleep, and come back to find it brimming with thoughtful discussion. I am not a developer so it's interesting for me to read thoughts on randomness and how it works in game design. It's a complex subject (pun intended) and difficult to balance properly, but when done right leads to memorable experiences that emerge naturally from playing the game.

I have followed the development of A Valley Without Wind pretty closely. I'm impressed by what you're trying to do and look forward to seeing the finished product. I just hope it's available on Mac OS, or at least plays nicely with Crossover.

Until then, I'll be fighting the AI and trying to convince everyone I know they should, too. Thanks again for the work you do, and for making me feel welcome on this board.

[x4000]

Thanks for that!  And yes, AVWW will be on OSX like all our others.

[Echo35]

Don't get me going with Monopoly. A game that I play only because my wife or son want to play... I think it does more to keep people from the playing of board games then encourage. Its design may be "classic" cough, cough but is hardly state of the art - just my opinion though.

I've found plenty of people who share that opinion.  It's games like that that lead to people thinking of board games as those things you have to put up with when you're hanging out with your family when visiting them for holidays.  Risk is a bit better in some ways, but some issues have turned up with it over the years, too.  If you can convince them to play something accessible but that's learned from the decades of advances in game design since that time, like the ever-popular Settlers of Catan, a lot of them have this revelation that, holy crap, they can actually be fun.

Rick and Monopoly don't count as board games

Get some Catan, Puerto Rico, Dominion, ANYTHING going, then we can talk.

[keith.lamothe]

Power Grid and Pandemic are pretty good too.  I particularly like the latter since it's co-op.  I don't really enjoy playing competitive games but sometimes a competitive board game can be interesting for the social side of it as well as playing with a personal goal other than winning (often contributing to the decision of who actually does win).

[blastpop]

I think it is the players. I am a board game publisher-

Are you the one responsible for modifying the game "risk!"? There is a game that has randomness but also probabilities that the player can influence. Whoever came out with that last risk video game totally failed.

I also object to miniature plastic pieces with flat bases. All they do is tip over, and you may as well go back to wooden cubes.

Kind of funny you mention Risk- it is older design- but has had several newer versions that are legitimately different from one another- i.e. Risk 2210, LotR, Star Wars and so on. Generally the other versions of Monopoly are just another facade plastered onto the same structure.  Vanilla Risk is definitely not as much fun as some of the newer versions out there.

As for Risk, I like the wood cubes.  I believe Target has an exclusive version with it. I don't play Risk often, it doesn't have enough meat as compared to other games- I save Risk for family play and so on. No I have nothing to do with Risk. I am an independent publisher- not much of a designer- though have a couple of my own designs in the works, currently.

Games of the complexity of AI Wars either real time or turn based are my thing.

I would like to see a turn based version of AI wars- plug in your orders and it runs for a set determined time until your orders can be changed/updated. Not that it would happen- merely something I would like to see.

Good gaming!

[x4000]

I'm definitely a fan of both Risk 2210, LotR Risk.  I have the latter, my dad has the former.

[keith.lamothe]

LotR Risk is one of my favorites; a few years ago I wrote a program to let me run simulations on gamestates from that.

There's also a co-op LotR board game where you basically play as the fellowship.  It seemed very difficult but was very interesting.  Kinda like the journey it models.

[x4000]

Yeah, I haven't played the other LotR board game yet -- I kept meaning to, then forgot about it.  I think it was only 2-player, which made it a low priority for me.

[keith.lamothe]

Oh, I must be thinking of a different one than you, actually.  It was up to 5 players playing the hobbits of the fellowship (if there's a 5th, Fatty Bolger comes along too), with the other characters represented in other ways.

[x4000]

Neat!  I know there were a number of them, so it must be a different one, then.

[Echo35]

Power Grid and Pandemic are pretty good too.  I particularly like the latter since it's co-op.  I don't really enjoy playing competitive games but sometimes a competitive board game can be interesting for the social side of it as well as playing with a personal goal other than winning (often contributing to the decision of who actually does win).

Co-op games? Battlestar Galactica. Enough said

[keith.lamothe]

Co-op games? Battlestar Galactica. Enough said

Ooh.

Ooooh.

The whole "some players are deceiving the others" bit is troublesome.  Partly because my gaming group is a bunch of nice guys.  Partly because I'm the kind of guy who played "BS" by always picking the truth approach

But the idea is really cool.