Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release

[keith.lamothe]

to make sure SF/Trains/Threatfleet behave (and NOT all camp the same planet bordering my space),

Are they still doing that?  Would the save from this post still be the best one to look at for that?

core turrets to be a lot cheaper, or free,

In m+c, or e, or both?  I don't really want these on every planet on the galaxy

and new color choices.

Any particular rgb combinations?  I don't really have time to implement an in-game color picker and get it syncing right in MP, etc.

If you're feeling accommodating, here's the actual format I have to plug in:

Code: [Select]

ColorMath.FromRGB( 243, 80, 1 ),
Produces a darker orange.  Or so the comment claims.

[Faulty Logic]

Are they still doing that?  Would the save from this post still be the best one to look at for that?

I haven't seen it in-game, but I also haven't seen a patch note indicating it was fixed.

That save would still be the one.

In m+c, or e, or both?

M + C. They are so expensive that I find myself contemplating a mobile force of mercenaries for a somewhat similar cost. The E cost would prevent total spamming.

On colors, this is the format you want? :

Code: [Select]

ColorMath.FromRGB( 99, 0, 199),Exactly like that, including comma at the end?
So a list should look like:

Code: [Select]

ColorMath.FromRGB( 99, 0, 199),
ColorMath.FromRGB( 255, 0, 85),

[Toranth]

core turrets to be a lot cheaper, or free,

In m+c, or e, or both?  I don't really want these on every planet on the galaxy

Core turrets ARE expensive right now.  My 2HW game building a full double-cap of 3 turret types was about 5 million m+c per planet (that was 144 turrets, including 48 Spider).  Energy costs seem OK to me.

[Tridus]

The Spiders themselves would have been over half of that. Those are crazy expensive. A single cap on one planet is 1.6 million m+c (1.1million of which is crystal). So your double cap of spiders is over 3 million alone, making the other two types a lot more affordable in comparison.

Edit - if I'm remembering my numbers right, a single spider V turret is the same m+c as a HBC III. Granted a premium price for big engine damage and no galaxy cap, but still. It's pricy.

[TechSY730]

Now that the showdown is reasonable, I want:

to make sure SF/Trains/Threatfleet behave (and NOT all camp the same planet bordering my space),

You still seeing trains glitching out?

Some sort of "soft avoidance" for duplicate "staging point for idle ships" for the special forces and threat fleet may be nice, but in many cases, it won't be that noticeable, as the both tend to "stage" a decent distance away and often when you move out, that triggers them to become "not idle" and thus move out to someplace else.


Also, you pay full scaled price for the Mk. V stuff from Mk. V fabricators and the like, why not with Mk. V turrets as well? (This is under the assumption that core turrets are indeed 5x the stats of their mk. I counterpart)

[Faulty Logic]

lso, you pay full scaled price for the Mk. V stuff from Mk. V fabricators and the like, why not with Mk. V turrets as well?

Because mobile fleet is superior to turretry.

Basically, mkV mobile fabricators are attractive targets even at fully scaled costs, but core turret fabs are not, mostly because of said costs.

Also regarding fabs: please let clicking on an uncaptured fab show its ship.

[TechSY730]

lso, you pay full scaled price for the Mk. V stuff from Mk. V fabricators and the like, why not with Mk. V turrets as well?

Because mobile fleet is superior to turretry.

Basically, mkV mobile fabricators are attractive targets even at fully scaled costs, but core turret fabs are not, mostly because of said costs.

True, but that may be a sign of an issue in the pricing structure in general.

The standard pricing structure over mark is 1x, 2x, 4x, 6x, 8x. While that may work for mobile stuff, it isn't really worth it for immobile stuff.

How about for turrets and other immobile (as in, cannot leave the planet) military stuff, the pricing structure becomes something more like 1x, 2x, 3.5x, 5x, 6.5x?
(I would actually like to see that structure be applied to mobile stuff, and turrets get 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, but one thing at a time I suppose)

Also regarding fabs: please let clicking on an uncaptured fab show its ship.

This, and for broken golems as well. Basically, use the sort of tooltip layout that spirecraft builder enclosures use (actual thing on top, thing that they will make and/or turn into below)

[Faulty Logic]

I think turrets should be fully linear, or even cheaper with the core fabs.

[TechSY730]

We have another report of AI units getting "stuck" (already linked similar previous cases)

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11787

[Toranth]

We have another report of AI units getting "stuck" (already linked similar previous cases)

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=11787

I think this one specifically has to do with Sniper Units and Radar Damping?  It's easy to reproduce by using Railpods to attack anything with Radar Damping, at least.

[Tridus]

Also, you pay full scaled price for the Mk. V stuff from Mk. V fabricators and the like, why not with Mk. V turrets as well? (This is under the assumption that core turrets are indeed 5x the stats of their mk. I counterpart)

Keith used the words "distributed defense" in the Showdown devices thread multiple times in regards to the controllers, and how they're meant to help encourage it.

1.6 million m+c for a single cap in a single system doesn't really do that if you're also trying to play with a small number of captured systems, because it will completely flatline your economy for a while. That's just not spammable unless the game is going to last a very, very long time. God help you if you have multiple controllers. I mean, a Fortress II is almost the same price as a cap, and isn't that better than 24 spider turrets?

Don't get me wrong, I really like the controllers. But they're only practical for me to spread around the mk V turrets in a lot of places because I like to take a lot of systems (particularly when I get a FS game going and wind up controlling half the map). It seems like x5 pricing would be a lot more usable than the current x8 is.

[keith.lamothe]

I'm actually quite happy to move the controllers into the "hilariously OP" zone (via cost and cap, mainly) and then back off from there.  This may be what it takes to make distributed defense feasible

And on that stuck-threat thing it sounds like a relatively straightforward thing (the code thinking "I need to be within range X to fire" in one place and "I need to be within range Y to fire" in another) rather than some deeply tangled AI problem but I will take a look when I get a chance.

[Tridus]

I'm actually quite happy to move the controllers into the "hilariously OP" zone (via cost and cap, mainly) and then back off from there.  This may be what it takes to make distributed defense feasible ;

Oh in that case, double the cap and halve the cost per turret. Then you'll pay the same as you do right now for a system cap only get double the firepower.

[keith.lamothe]

On the AI-snipers-not-closing-on-radar-dampened-targets thing, I'll take a look later, but on the ton of stuck-threat mantis issues dragged to the top via being marked related to it, I'm really slammed schedule-wise right now and would appreciate it if someone would retest any of those saves submitted on or before May 14th (which is the date of 6.028's release, which basically rewrote much of the AI).  Specifically:

AI units sometimes not moving into attack range http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10967
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=3928&type=bug
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=3941&type=bug

Enemy ships stop moving http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=3825
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=1185&type=bug

AI wave ships attacked and now they won't move http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2577
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=890&type=bug
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=910&type=bug


For each of those saves, I'd like to know:

1) Is the bug reported in the associated mantis record still there (in all 3 cases I think this is no longer the case, or I wouldn't be asking for a retest) ?
2) If so, please provide steps to reproduce so I can observe it myself, even if it's just "open save, switch to planet (x), watch unit (y)"

Thanks

[Toranth]

On the AI-snipers-not-closing-on-radar-dampened-targets thing, I'll take a look later, but on the ton of stuck-threat mantis issues dragged to the top via being marked related to it, I'm really slammed schedule-wise right now and would appreciate it if someone would retest any of those saves submitted on or before May 14th (which is the date of 6.028's release, which basically rewrote much of the AI).  Specifically:
<...>
For each of those saves, I'd like to know:

1) Is the bug reported in the associated mantis record still there (in all 3 cases I think this is no longer the case, or I wouldn't be asking for a retest) ?
2) If so, please provide steps to reproduce so I can observe it myself, even if it's just "open save, switch to planet (x), watch unit (y)"


AI units sometimes not moving into attack range http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10967
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=3928&type=bug
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=3941&type=bug

I still see this behavior in both saves running 6.042.  Just switch to the planet listed in the Save file name, and look at the nearby AI unit not doing anything. 
1)  Plasma Siege Starship has a Attack/Wait (x,y) order.  If the human BSS comes into range, the PSS will shoot, but it will not approach the human BSS on its own.
2)  The AI 2 (red) units in system all have the same Attack/Wait (x,y) order.  However, after a few seconds, all the units will switch to retreat orders for the nearest AI system. 
I do not know why these AI units are not moving to attack.  This would still seem to be a problem.

Enemy ships stop moving http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=3825
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=1185&type=bug

This appears to be fixed.  I saw the AI units finish their immediate fight, then move on to the next system.  In fact, they proceeded to wipe out all human planets, without hesitation or getting stuck.

AI wave ships attacked and now they won't move http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=2577
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=890&type=bug
Save: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/file_download.php?file_id=910&type=bug

In the first save ("Frozen AI Ships.sav"), I can see the Zenith Mirrors in the Mbadmyun system clearly in a wait state.  Within a second or two, though, they are given new orders and move on to attack the next system.
The second save does not appear to actually contain a "waiting" situation (accidently uploaded according to the comments).
This problem appears to have been solved.