Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release

[Eternaly_Lost]

Oh, and one more nice-to-have that shouldn't take too long: even if you don't overhaul Champions, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE fix the UI. It really grates on me: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=10886

I strongly agree with this. Champions really need a much more streamlined UI. Too much micro for something that changes far too often. Fallen Spire, Raid Starships, just about everything else with modules, I spend about 30 minutes to an hour getting a set perfect for whatever comes up and then it set.

Champions have far too many options and no simple way to do the same and NO default load outs that I can just grab to play with them. I either need to make hundred of load outs, or do it manually each time.


If I was a dedicated Champion player and did not have the rest of the game, it might be fine, but as it is now, it not.

[chemical_art]

The hunter / shark plots need to be more overt when they fire.

I'm really not digging having to randomly guess why suddenly I have a dozen arty guardians appear out of no where, or that hunter killer.

The idea sounds cool, but the result is more just units being thrown at me, without warning. Definitely a recipe for a minor faction I'll write off and not use.

Definitely would more entertaining if instead of the units appear out of thin air that they drew from available units. The idea of the AI responding more vigorously with existing assets at least has a silver lining of benefit. Having simply more units spawn just sounds...well, similar to beachheads. More pain, no gain, no way!

[keith.lamothe]

The hunter / shark plots need to be more overt when they fire.

I'm really not digging having to randomly guess why suddenly I have a dozen arty guardians appear out of no where, or that hunter killer.

The shark plot already tells you when it gets a bump (the AIP from human command station death, etc).  That's the exact moment it launches the mini-exo that goes along with it (it doesn't save those up).  It does save up its impact on the next CPA, but when that CPA launches the text describing the count of each mark launched also includes a line for the shark contribution.  Is there anything else you want it to say?

The hunter doesn't but all its doing is putting extra units into the special forces.  What do you want it to say, "putting extra units into the special forces"?   I can certainly do that but it seems like more information than the game usually gives (outside of logging; advanced logging will be happy to tell you about every single hunter unit added, in the SF log). Would you want the champ-nemesis thing to tell you when it spawns a SF or TF nemesis, too?

More pain, no gain, no way!

I don't think AI Plots, in general, are for you then   I don't think Avenger, Hybrids, or Beachheads give any in-game benefit, they're just there for those who would find the game more fun that way.  Same with the new Hunter and Shark plots. 

Minor Factions are where we try for the silver lining thing, though some of them were added without that in mind (Preservation Wardens... can't think of any others off the top of my head as Marauders, SCLs, Roaming Enclaves, ZTraitor, Dark Spire, etc all have some potential benefit... Mining Golems are pretty much just penalty though).

[Faulty Logic]

Priorities for 7.0?

The Showdown.

[LordSloth]

I think... he wants something like pulling from reserves, planetary guards... but I don't know. Best to let him clarify himself. I'm guessing something like below might interest him?

Alternatively, maybe he's encountering the Rally effect I did?

A twist to Hunter: Special Forces Factories (1 per AI with plot) scattered throughout space, preferably on subcommander planets, but not any planet with an ARS or Mark IV Fleet/Starship Factory. As normal special forces spawn from Special Forces Posts, the extra guardians and hunters could spawn from these Spec. Forces Factories. Two-fold benefit
-if you have scouts, you can track the progress of reinforcement, to see when the next H/K arrives
-you can 'beat' the hunter plot. Of course, taking on any planet that can spawn H/Ks will have it's risks...

[Tridus]

I hope that some of the AI issues introduced get looked at. I posted the one save of the AI dancing around a planet changing targets and being totally ineffective for several minutes while doing it, but that's not the only odd behavior out there now. You'll see ships sometimes fly well past their goal, then turn around and come back. Unfortunately I can't recreate that one reliably, but I have seen it happen quite a few times.

There's also the case where I'll bring a Botnet Golem against a system with hundreds or thousands of units in carriers, and the AI will respond by kindly unloading them 60 at a time for me to zombify. When you have 4000 units in carriers at a planet, that's the worst possible thing to do. Unloading 500 of them would at least give it a shot of doing some damage to the Botnet (particularly if the carrier was at close range and the units have a bonus to UltraHeavy). Even staying in the carriers and forcing me to use some other ships to crack them open would be more effective than unloading in such small numbers.

(I also think Barracks should unload if their planet is under attack, it seems odd for stuff to just sit there and let me neuter the system uncontested.)

[keith.lamothe]

I hope that some of the AI issues introduced get looked at. I posted the one save of the AI dancing around a planet changing targets and being totally ineffective for several minutes while doing it, but that's not the only odd behavior out there now. You'll see ships sometimes fly well past their goal, then turn around and come back. Unfortunately I can't recreate that one reliably, but I have seen it happen quite a few times.

Exo-dancing dates back to the beginning of exos (happens when the leader is really long ranged), and the fly-past-while-in-FRD thing happens to both sides and has for quite a while (post 6.0, though, I think), but isn't really a big deal.

Do you have examples of dancing that's not exo ships?

[Tridus]

Do you have examples of dancing that's not exo ships?

I don't think so, but I'll keep an eye out.

[chemical_art]

The shark plot already tells you when it gets a bump (the AIP from human command station death, etc).  That's the exact moment it launches the mini-exo that goes along with it (it doesn't save those up).  It does save up its impact on the next CPA, but when that CPA launches the text describing the count of each mark launched also includes a line for the shark contribution.  Is there anything else you want it to say?

As another suggested, the AIP bump from losing a player command station should be a separate plot. I don't need any more reasons to not rely 100% on chokepoints in my games. I know it is unavoidable that the shark AI hurts chokepoints the least, but I want the threats to be temporary, not permanent.
I think the first time the mini exo is launched a journal entry should be done instead, indicating the AI is responding vigorously to an opportunity it sees. Makes the cause and effect of "losing a command station is what causes the incoming wave" much more clear, which is important for new players. 

The hunter doesn't but all its doing is putting extra units into the special forces.  What do you want it to say, "putting extra units into the special forces"?   I can certainly do that but it seems like more information than the game usually gives (outside of logging; advanced logging will be happy to tell you about every single hunter unit added, in the SF log). Would you want the champ-nemesis thing to tell you when it spawns a SF or TF nemesis, too?

I think part of the confusion is that if you turn on both hunter and shark together, it gets harder to decide "why did this happen?". Considering I've had situations where both come rampaging through at the same time, it makes cause and effect harder. In a vacuum where you know everything but one of these plots it is fairly easy to deduce it, but together it seems harder, and in game there few clues, which is in part why I like them to be more clear.

As LordSloth suggested, making the H/K's spawning a bit similar to current hybrid facilities would certainly help make it more entertaining and less futile. The H/K's generated should have in their tooltip something to the effect of "This H/K has been generated as part of enhanced special forces" so as to help define where they originated from, similar to how nemesis are explained if they wander outside AI HW.

More pain, no gain, no way!

I don't think AI Plots, in general, are for you then   I don't think Avenger, Hybrids, or Beachheads give any in-game benefit, they're just there for those who would find the game more fun that way.  Same with the new Hunter and Shark plots. 

Well, I can see why, but on the other hand, most of those actually have less of on an impact (in time, if not in magnitude) then the current shark / hunter. Each of those has a silver lining of sorts though. Beachheads are not very popular, but at the very least the waves they spawn in have reduced strength. Hybrids can have their factories destroyed resulting in their power wanning. Avengers can be avoided by popping both stations at once.

The shark is OK I suppose, but the AIP gain feels aggravating. I don't understand what you mean by the CPA's though. It just seems they cause less of the existing AI units to enter threat, so in effect it still causes more units to enter the field. I feel it doesn't need to strengthen CPA's in addition to spawning units in response to cmd lost.

As for the hunter, the idea is interesting, but the idea would be a lot more fun if the interesting units spawning had more...flavor, when they were made. Having a H/K bump into a world due to SF logic 3 hours into a 8.3 game is just...jarring. When another one comes less then a hour later it gets more annoying. However, if on several worlds there were factories that add interesting units to the SF (I'm thinking experimentals) that the player could destroy, and several hours in a tooltip alerting the player that a particular factory on X (if known) is creating something really nasty (a H/K) then that would give more "flavor" and fun rather then units just appearing out of nowhere.

Minor Factions are where we try for the silver lining thing, though some of them were added without that in mind (Preservation Wardens... can't think of any others off the top of my head as Marauders, SCLs, Roaming Enclaves, ZTraitor, Dark Spire, etc all have some potential benefit... Mining Golems are pretty much just penalty though).

I see, which is why on the above I'm trying to make them more entertaining even if there is no benefit.

[Histidine]

Would it be possible to put the oft-discussed superweapon rescale on the plate for 7.0, or would that require too much work now?

[chemical_art]

Would it be possible to put the oft-discussed superweapon rescale on the plate for 7.0, or would that require too much work now?

Given the amount of time till 7.0 I think there isn't enough time.

That said, in early july, I'll try to get a poll out that among the "big projects" such as armor, health rework, etc, which players want done most.

[keith.lamothe]

Would it be possible to put the oft-discussed superweapon rescale on the plate for 7.0, or would that require too much work now?

Three main reasons that won't be in for 7.0

1) While I think we were close to consensus on what should happen, there was still some significant dissent and we'd need to at least give a chance for that to be aired before moving forward with such a sweeping change.

2) Sweeping core-game balance changes should not be made less than 2 weeks before the planned release date of an official.  (this means you, introduction of armor and hull types for 4.0 or whatever it was)  Because there's just not enough iteration time to catch all the inevitable problems such a thing would cause.

3) Even aside from the above, just the time to actually make all those changes is significant and the time can be better put towards refinement of the new stuff.

[mecharm]

Any ETA on the glorious release of the beta (or at least the landing page...man I love me a new expansion landing page...)?

(please let there be a beta, next week is too far away, please let there be a beta, next week is too far away, please let there be a beta, next week is too far away)

[keith.lamothe]

Any ETA on the glorious release of the beta (or at least the landing page...man I love me a new expansion landing page...)?

(please let there be a beta, next week is too far away, please let there be a beta, next week is too far away, please let there be a beta, next week is too far away)

I don't think there's going to be a beta, sorry

[mecharm]

Would linking the noooooo button change anything?