Author Topic: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release  (Read 12866 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« on: May 27, 2013, 12:35:08 pm »
We're 2 weeks from the desired official release date (June 10th, though the 13th has also been mentioned internally as a potentially better target) of 7.0 and the "Vengeance of the Machine" expansion.

What issues do you think are most critical to address before then?  The only items you should assume are already on my list (though there are more) are:

1) Implement the rest of the expansion stuff ;)  Specifically:
- The two other bonus ship types (Neinzul Combat Carrier and Protector Starship) (mostly implemented, but I still need to work out some of the details so I commented them out before releasing 6.033)
- The three Brutal Core Guard Post ideas that won their poll
- The three Non-Brutal Core Guard Post ideas that won their poll
- Dire Guardians (already implemented, really, I just need to get the actual art in and turn them on)
- Maybe a few other bits, but they're not really all that important so it depends on how much critical-for-7.0 stuff there is remaining.

2) As with every official, go through the existing tutorials and see where I've made a liar out of it through whatever changes, fix it up in those places, and make sure it any critically important rule changes are at least reflected in there somewhere (for instance, the fact that guard posts hurt, where they used to be pushovers).

And a few specific things that we've discussed here but are not going to be in 7.0:

- The new hacking stuff.  It's a personal priority for me but the timing of when we realized it made sense for me to switch from Exodus to doing this expansion was, and the timing of when we realized such an expansion would need to be released... it just didn't add up to include enough time for this.

- An armor overhaul, for two main reasons:
-- There's still not a consensus here on how that should be done.  I don't mean we need unanimous opinion or whatever, but there's still a lot of people who want to keep the "good against high-rate-of-fire" aspects of armor and a lot of people who just want to ditch it for a %-based system or (like me) just ditch it in return for nothing at all.
-- As we've done recent balance passes on guardians and such, and for most of the newer units I've been adding, we've been gradually phasing in a different armor approach where there's simply a lot fewer unit types with armor and/or armor-piercing.

- A Champion overhaul, since the discussion on what to do there still needs time to resolve into a clear plan, and since there's not really time to iterate on a bunch of balance changes there on top of everything else.


Anyway, please let me know what you find most important to address before the official release (if your answer was going to be one of the things on that not-for-7.0 list, my response is: "is the rest of the game seriously that clean already?").  Including a mantis link for each item is highly recommended ;)

I'm not sure yet whether I'll do a poll (either to prioritize due to huge volume, or to seek corroboration that something is not just a particular player's personal pet peeve), but it's a possibility.  Obviously critical stuff will generally just be fixed as I become aware of it and have time :)
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 12:59:13 pm »
- An armor overhaul, for two main reasons:
-- There's still not a consensus here on how that should be done.  I don't mean we need unanimous opinion or whatever, but there's still a lot of people who want to keep the "good against high-rate-of-fire" aspects of armor and a lot of people who just want to ditch it for a %-based system or (like me) just ditch it in return for nothing at all.
-- As we've done recent balance passes on guardians and such, and for most of the newer units I've been adding, we've been gradually phasing in a different armor approach where there's simply a lot fewer unit types with armor and/or armor-piercing.
*Sad puppy* Though completely understandable. If I wasn't buried under boxes, furniture and work, I'd help with whatever you need.
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Offline TIE Viper

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 02:03:10 pm »
Nothing is jumping out at me as a priority that isn't on the to do list already.  Although I'm sure my knowledge base for that is less than an alpha player.  ;)

I am curious about something though.  There were 9 bonus ships for LotS and AS.  Are there going to be 9 this one too or just the 6 that won the poll?
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 02:22:34 pm »
Nothing is jumping out at me as a priority that isn't on the to do list already.
Great to know, thanks :) 

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Although I'm sure my knowledge base for that is less than an alpha player.  ;)
I've mentioned more than once that someone wanting into the alpha can PM me  ;)

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I am curious about something though.  There were 9 bonus ships for LotS and AS.  Are there going to be 9 this one too or just the 6 that won the poll?
I'd only planned on 5 or 6 from the beginning.  I think it's important to grow that list with each expansion but I think a lower quantity (even 3, honestly) is preferable because:
- There's already so many, so an idea has to be pretty good to even be worth adding to the list, and limiting the quantity generally helps increase the average quality.
- There are other parts of the game where adding more units will have a better overall impact on the fun of the game.  For instance, more variety in guardian types.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 07:12:19 pm »
I think it's a good idea to keep the bonus ship number low because when Keith finally gets around to the armor rework, he'll likely have to do a major overhaul on the existing ones anyway...which will not be fun.

Cloaked ships still chilling out on allied planets for an infinite amount of time.

Planet-specific "pull-down" tab not in alphabetical order.

FRD Remains Rebuilders only option.

Control Group specific FRD bug.

Redirector rally-post patrol mechanic still not working correctly - Just want to point out that this one was slated to be fixed "before the next major release", and that was in the 5.x series.

In all honesty, there are no major issues left with the game that you didn't mention (in my opinion); and that's probably why this thread looks like a ghost town. These are the major problems I have with the game right now. Most of them are just minor bugs, but they occur so often that they are enough to significantly hinder the gameplay enjoyment for me.


« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 07:14:47 pm by Wingflier »
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 07:44:24 pm »
Text boxes are still horribly glitchy under wine. Of course, not being on a supported platform and all, I am sort of asking for it. ;)

That's pretty much the biggest thing I can see so far, and it is entirely possible it is not even your fault. :D

And yea, trying to do a major rebalance of stuff (like armor or champions) while also adding new plots and unit types does seem like that would be a bit too much. None of those are really damaging the state of the game in their current state, so they aren't really major in terms of "damage to balance", even if they may be major in scope.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 07:52:15 pm »
Cloaked ships still chilling out on allied planets for an infinite amount of time.
Thanks for the report, I thought I might have fixed it with the AI rework.

In that case, how much game time has actually elapsed since the cloaked ships settled in for their poker tournament (or who knows, they might have modernized to MOBA by now)?


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Planet-specific "pull-down" tab not in alphabetical order.
If you're curious it's actually planet list order since that doesn't change if the player renames something, but sure, I can have it go by alphabetical.

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FRD Remains Rebuilders only option.
Ah yes, I can see the desire.  I normally just accept horrendous engineer casualties but that's not going to hold universal appeal ;)

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Control Group specific FRD bug.
To clarify, the bug is that the engineers have a (FRD) move order to another planet, but they never execute that order?

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Redirector rally-post patrol mechanic still not working correctly - Just want to point out that this one was slated to be fixed "before the next major release", and that was in the 5.x series.
The slatings are a quaint thing to me ;)  But I can take a look when I get a chance.


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In all honesty, there are no major issues left with the game that you didn't mention (in my opinion); and that's probably why this thread looks like a ghost town.
I certainly don't mind an absence of problems!  Though it is helpful for people to chime in if they think that's the case so I can resolve the ambiguity between "silence because it's clean" and "silence because no one's paying attention" ;)

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These are the major problems I have with the game right now. Most of them are just minor bugs, but they occur so often that they are enough to significantly hinder the gameplay enjoyment for me.
And that's mainly what I'm looking for: not every little thing that's obviously not working as designed, but the things that actually make the game less fun.  Sometimes those aren't even bugs, per se, though obviously I'm not looking for complex reworks here either.
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Offline relmz32

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2013, 09:57:10 pm »
ARS still say the grant you level 1 and 2 of a ship type when what it does is give you level 1 of a ship type +500 bonus Knowledge.


Edit: Looks like this was already in Mantis
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 12:21:11 pm by relmz32 »
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2013, 10:41:32 pm »
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In that case, how much game time has actually elapsed since the cloaked ships settled in for their poker tournament (or who knows, they might have modernized to MOBA by now)?
I think about an hour? Long enough for me to continue looking at the planet on the galaxy map, seeing 100 enemy units, and having a miniature heart attack every time until I'm too stressed out to play :D

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To clarify, the bug is that the engineers have a (FRD) move order to another planet, but they never execute that order?
Yes, that is correct. They are told to leave the planet, yet they defy that order and continue to build on the planet the original order was given from. You can see them going back and forth, as if having a difficulty making a decision. The only time they will finally leave is when there is nothing left to build. You can watch the replay, it is already happening. It's kind of funny to see actually.

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The slatings are a quaint thing to me ;)  But I can take a look when I get a chance.
Oh well, I wasn't sure how seriously anybody takes those things. I was just letting you know.

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I certainly don't mind an absence of problems!  Though it is helpful for people to chime in if they think that's the case so I can resolve the ambiguity between "silence because it's clean" and "silence because no one's paying attention" ;)
As I said, most of the *major* problems of the game are gone. In its current form, it is in a very playable and dare I say, fun state. Now if you turn Champions on and use some of the ahem, less useful bonus ships, of course, you can cause yourself a little more frustration than necessary.

But that certainly doesn't take away from the core gameplay which, as far as I'm concerned, the new expansion has improved dramatically (excited for Dire Guardians).

My next major suggestion would be an optional "allied resources" UI tab simply because trying to see your allies' income using the "Stats Economy Tab" is absolutely atrocious and counterproductive to any sort of consistent or enjoyable gameplay continuity. Being able to see your allies resource bars at a glance would be a huge improvement to gameplay in multiplayer, especially considering the existing gameplay mechanics that benefit teams most when one player goes "economy" then shares his resources with his allies as necessary. Of course, this suggestion is simply for convenience, though it is obviously very practical as well. I'll probably suggest it in Mantis somewhere down the road. Maybe I could get RCIX to draw up some UI designs for it.

Overall I think this expansion is already pretty full of great stuff.

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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2013, 12:17:25 am »
i'm happy, fwiw. gj!
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Offline Jonz0rz

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2013, 01:39:28 am »
Currently, when a FRD unit's target dies, it will return to it's FRD point until the "find target" logic kicks in. Sometimes it takes 3-5 seconds before this happens, which can cause them to "dance" back and forth, or even leave a planet with enemies on them if you did a multi-planet FRD.

Also, is the AI still paying MK + 1 for spire/zenith starships? Because from a power level standpoint, they're MK * 2.

That's really all I can think of. Things have been shaping up nicely :).

Offline TIE Viper

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2013, 05:26:16 am »
I've mentioned more than once that someone wanting into the alpha can PM me  ;)

I know.  I wasn't saying that about the alpha to imply I wanted in, but rather just to point out that the alpha players probably have a larger knowledge base for what should be prioritized. :)  I just got back into the game after about a month long hiatus because of work mostly (trying to save up to move.)  I probably would have PM to be in the alpha if it wasn't for that.

I'd only planned on 5 or 6 from the beginning.  I think it's important to grow that list with each expansion but I think a lower quantity (even 3, honestly) is preferable because:
- There's already so many, so an idea has to be pretty good to even be worth adding to the list, and limiting the quantity generally helps increase the average quality.
- There are other parts of the game where adding more units will have a better overall impact on the fun of the game.  For instance, more variety in guardian types.

It didn't seem like there were going to be more than 6, and I certainly agree with your reasoning BTW so I don't mind.  I just wanted to know which realm of either fantasy-land or reality-ville my thoughts about it landed.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 05:38:40 am by TIE Viper »
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Offline Bognor

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2013, 11:23:18 am »
A couple of little things that I'd like:

Make Harvester auto-construct ignore SF guard posts and cloaked units
There's now a CTRL option for this.  See the 6.024 patch notes.  That Mantis issue can be marked resolved, as can the near-duplicate 11068.
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Offline Bognor

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Re: Priorities for 7.0/Vengeance official release
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2013, 11:49:16 am »
A couple of small things:

Updates for the objectives screen
Crucially, the Advanced Starship Constructor needs to be listed.  I've included in that Mantis report a request to also list Zenith Power Generators, and as a lower priority, to list Zenith Cache mark level in the associated objectives.

Some way to make Hybrid Hive Spawners easier to find on the galaxy map
The linked Mantis report suggests giving them a different appearance to the other hybrid facilities, which would be helpful.  Alternatively or in addition, have them listed separately to other hybrid facilities on the planetary intel summaries, and/or (best option) create a new galaxy filter called "Detected Hybrid Spawners".
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