Author Topic: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)  (Read 5785 times)

Offline Spikey00

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2009, 12:24:09 pm »
Wouldn't it be possible to have a certain percentage of the units acquire the wrong target?  This should be done at random.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2009, 04:28:06 pm »
Wow, the new capturables are AWESOME!

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2009, 07:27:07 pm »
Mhh, i still don't like the font ;) Its too close to old german writing and deprecated hand-writing in some parts which makes me read an "f" that goes the beneath the text base line (like g does) as a "s" and did i mention i can't read old german or suterlin?.  ;D

Overall i think this font is WAY too close to handwriting in style - and i still much prefer Arial ;/ especially when its numbers or small text.

Is there not a way to have 2 fonts - the "new" sci-fi font for BIG text and a VERY clear readable non italic/sans serif kind of font for small text and numbers?

Maybe its because i am on a crt but the readable on small text is impossible still...
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Offline CogDissident

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2009, 09:54:37 pm »
Are cursed golems not supposed to be immune to paralizer ships? I mean, its a fun game-ender ship (i fixed it and just threw it at the core command station of the AI and it soloed everything in its path), but a single zenith paralizer can kill the cursed golem by making it unable to fire.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2009, 09:48:35 am »
Wow, quite an update, some of these units are really interesting (and all of them at least somewhat so).

I was going to chime in about the autotargetting-vs-micro issue on the absorbers, but I'm glad to see someone else already did so ;)

Not sure what solutions would be good here; the only "clear" one I can think of is basically not having absorption beyond the absorber itself being immune to the damage type in question.  But that's not interesting ;)

But here's something that I think would work if the cpu cost was endurable:

1) when firing a shot, if the target is "covered" (within range of friendly absorber) against that shot's damage type, the shot is actually fired at the covering ship (the firing ship's actual target does not change).
2) the autotargetting logic will always prefer a non-covered target over a covered one

Thus achieving both the goal of "area" absorption and the goal that autotargetting is not substantially crippled compared to smart manual targetting

Here's some horrible psuedo-code-ish fragments:

Code: [Select]
// absorber ship "refresh" code to update the lookups before either targetting or firing

foreach(ship in AllShipsInSystem)
foreach(damageType in AllDamageTypes)
ship.AbsorberShips[damageType] = null;

foreach(ship in AllShipsInSystem)
if(ship.AbsorbedDamageTypes.Count != 0)
foreach(absorbedDamageType in ship.AbsorbedDamageTypes)
foreach(otherShip in GetFriendlyShipsWithinInCircle(ship.Location,ship.AbsorptionRange))
otherShip.AbsorberShips[absorbedDamageType] = ship;


// in the autotargetting code

foreach(possibleTarget in AllShipsInSystem)
{
// earlier autotargetting quick-case logic or whatever
if
(
   bestTargetSoFar != null
&& bestTargetSoFar.AbsorberShips[targettingShip.Weapon.DamageType] == null
&& possibleTarget.AbsorberShips[targettingShip.Weapon.DamageType] != null
)
{
// current best target is not covered by absorber, and this possibleTarget IS covered, so ignore this possibleTarget
continue;
}
// rest of autotargetting logic ...
}

// When actually firing a shot:

if(targetShip.AbsorberShips[ship.Weapon.DamageType] != null)
FireAtTarget(targetShip.AbsorberShips[ship.Weapon.DamageType]);
else
FireAtTarget(targetShip);

I didn't include various optimizations that came to mind (maintain an AllAbsoberShipsInSystem list, don't refresh if no ships have moved or died, etc) since it's kinda pointless without knowing more about the real code.  If this sort of solution is conceivably possible cpu-cost wise I can refine it ;)

Thanks,
Keith
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Offline FFLaguna

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2009, 11:37:36 am »
Nice update! Keep up the great work ;)

Offline Oewyn

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2009, 01:12:53 pm »
The new font's '?' and '7' look too similar, almost indistinguishable.  In particular the bounding box information on the number of enemies.  Once you finally get all the font issues cleared you also may want to look at re-centering some of the menu item texts in the bottom-left like Lone/Group.

Offline I-KP

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2009, 02:33:45 pm »
Mhh, i still don't like the font ;)
Can't admit to being a huge fan either but it is readable in the majority.  The tiny text does still need work to make it easily legible particularly with the numbers.  An alternate clear text font for the tiny text and numbers seems like the easy solution; keep the "sci-fi feel" box ticked by keeping the current font for the larger text.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2009, 10:18:09 am »
Are cursed golems not supposed to be immune to paralizer ships? I mean, its a fun game-ender ship (i fixed it and just threw it at the core command station of the AI and it soloed everything in its path), but a single zenith paralizer can kill the cursed golem by making it unable to fire.

Yeah, that's pretty crazy and unintentional. :)  In the next prerelease, there will be some checks in there to make it so that paralysis attacks don't affect a variety of the larger ships; they are really meant to be an effective counter against other smaller fleet ships, not the huge weapons that should decimate them.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2009, 10:20:41 am »
I was going to chime in about the autotargetting-vs-micro issue on the absorbers, but I'm glad to see someone else already did so ;)

Not sure what solutions would be good here; the only "clear" one I can think of is basically not having absorption beyond the absorber itself being immune to the damage type in question.  But that's not interesting ;)

But here's something that I think would work if the cpu cost was endurable:

1) when firing a shot, if the target is "covered" (within range of friendly absorber) against that shot's damage type, the shot is actually fired at the covering ship (the firing ship's actual target does not change).
2) the autotargetting logic will always prefer a non-covered target over a covered one

Thus achieving both the goal of "area" absorption and the goal that autotargetting is not substantially crippled compared to smart manual targetting

Here's some horrible psuedo-code-ish fragments:

...

I didn't include various optimizations that came to mind (maintain an AllAbsoberShipsInSystem list, don't refresh if no ships have moved or died, etc) since it's kinda pointless without knowing more about the real code.  If this sort of solution is conceivably possible cpu-cost wise I can refine it ;)

Actually, this is pretty much exactly how force fields, counter-sniper turrets, and counter-negative-energy stuff already works, including the optimizations you mentioned as well as a few others (such as only periodically recalculating the protections, etc.  I had wanted to avoid this with decoys, though, to avoid having load that seems unneeded... but I think the general consensus is that this is the way to go.  So, I'll just make it like the others, then...
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Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2009, 10:22:39 am »
Also, I'd also like to go ahead and note that the next prerelease will have an entirely different font included.  Still working on the details of that one, but I think people will really like it.  It's a lot closer to Arial in most respects, but with a bit of a unique twist to it, and is much cleaner.
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Offline I-KP

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2009, 01:40:27 pm »
Goodie.   ;D
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2009, 10:25:49 pm »
Goodie indeed  ;D :D

I hope with some of the next pre-releases the Zenith will be included as their own NPC race (next to the AI's) in the game though.. I think this is the coolest feature of them all, depending on how the interaction works and how deep/complex interaction will be... though it might also be the most time intensive to work out all the kinks.

Though i am guessing before thats possible all the Zenith Ships and buildings have to be in the game... not wanting to bugger just curious how the Zenith NPC Race is going to be realized.. I guess my hope to see a full blown "diplomatic dialog tree" is a bit far fetched? ;)
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Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2009, 10:35:21 pm »
For full details on how the Zenith will act, please see this:  http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,2250.0.html

I realized that I hadn't updated that in a while, so I've put a lot more notes there about what to expect.  Good question! :)
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Prerelease/Expans 2.001U (2 new golems, 19 new ships overall)
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2009, 10:52:16 pm »
Ah i see ;)

Is the next pre-release coming up any time soon? You know.. its that addiction to more pre-releases again!
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