Author Topic: Prerelease 3.178 (Neinzul Cluster/Nest/Bomber/Viral, New Ion Cans, Starships+)  (Read 17518 times)

Offline Diazo

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Ya, the biggest thing all these changes are making is the randomness. (and that's a good thing!)

Although I will say I got one of the harder starting locations I've seen in a while.

3 adjacent planets all Mk I, 1 with nothing special, 1 with Ion Mk III, 1 with Ion Mk III and Mk IV.

The planet with nothing special has no metal or crystal and opens up onto two Mk III worlds so it's for last.

I go for the one with just the Mk III Ion on it, except there's a raid engine the next planet down, on a Mk IV world.

Oddly enough I was playing against 2 Nester AI's but I never saw a 'Nest', unless the Regenerator is the Nest structure?

Anyways, was one of my wierdest starting unlocks ever going heavy starship with all those Ion cannons. I ultimately lost, but it was fun trying something different as a real strategy, not just for the sake of trying something different.

I'll try another game tommorow and without the Ion cannon spam I'll actually have real feedback, I didn't get a chance to see any of the other stuff beyond the new ion cannon types this game.

D.

Offline Epsilon Plus

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Oh god I broke something. Accidentally made a group of 3000+, then tried to de-group. It's stuck at "waiting for players" now.

Offline superking

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wait a second, zenith starships are packing 14 million HP?

isnt that going to make deepstriking datacenters ludicrously easy?

as in, oh, a data center 5 jumps from one of my planets. no mass drivers along the route. just sent two zenith starships there and back. odds of losing 14 million hp on the journey = low

Offline Ktoff

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For stuff like that i usually use Raid Starships. Even three MkI Ships can be crazily effective. 6 (MkI & II) can go raid  6-7 Systems away if you are a bit careful and do not mind losing one or two. In another game i send 5 ships seven jumps away to free the Dyson sphere (on the way 2 MkII and 1 Mk III planet) and all made it back alive....

If the speed has not been upped by a lot recently, the Zenith Starships would take forever to get there....

Offline Ozymandiaz

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wait a second, zenith starships are packing 14 million HP?

isnt that going to make deepstriking datacenters ludicrously easy?

as in, oh, a data center 5 jumps from one of my planets. no mass drivers along the route. just sent two zenith starships there and back. odds of losing 14 million hp on the journey = low

They certanly help that way, but imo this does not make the new HP bad. In fact I like the new powerful starships, with all these new threaths the expansion is promising, they might actually need it ;)



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Offline superking

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lool, why on earth is viral swarmer AI considered Easier

45 minutes into a game, I provoked a MK III planet with 4 viral swarmer nests. my force had 3 flagships and approx 600 MK I - MK II fleet ships.

5 minutes later, there are 4000+ viral swarmers on my homeworld. the cryostasis pods disintergrated, my entire fleet, annhilated, viral swarmers, rapidly multiplying and boiling out every wormhole. THE END IS NIGHhHHHHH
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 06:17:09 am by superking »

Offline superking

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OK, virals are probably broken atm, just had them multiply in excess of 9000 and bring framerate to about 1.

virals would probably work better with some kind of ranged attack, a huge swarm of melee ships tends to just all converge in one place for massive lag, not to mention occluding player fleets and making it rather difficult to tell what is going on. a short range version of the sniper railgun would look cool  8)

the viral nest weapon (the only nest type I have encountered so far, if other nests share this weapon then this applies to them too) seem rather too powerful unless they really were intended to dominate, four of them on a world function in a manner similar to mass driver atm, shredding starships at unpleasant speed. its probably too late to suggest such a thing, but would be cool if nests would be attacked via EMP shots, stunning ships for the neinzul within to devour insect style; as it is the ships within are obstacle enough to make the addition of a very powerful weapon a bit ott  ;D

Offline superking

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the carriers are really annoying to use atm, it is not possible to set a rally point and to place the constructed units on FRD as they emerge the carrier has to be on FRD, whereupon it flys about and dosnt stay still for the engineer assist. needs rally points seperate from movement imo

Offline keith.lamothe

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Could this at least pave the way for some non-AI "big guns" that could be purchasable from the Trader? Maybe something that doesn't auto-kill like an Ion Cannon, but a fast-firing, relatively high damage projectile...
Well, there's the Heavy Beam Cannon Mk IV that you can get via knowledge; it's insta-fire with a fairly long range that does a total of 2,000,000 damage per firing, albeit split over 40 beams in a fan.

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The very last post of the 3.177 thread also pointed out that somehow AI ships are ending up way outside of the gravity well
Yea, some of them get waaay-the-waaaaaay out there. That was fixed in this release:
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* Fixed a bug from the last couple of prereleases that could cause odd AI behavior such as its ships shooting off into the ether. It was a funny and unintended occasional side-effect of one of the recent performance improvements.

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Is there any possibility we might get a little notification pop up? Something along the lines of "Urist Mcplanet is under attack from a Hybrid Hive!"
Maybe a popup that says "SIEGE!" ;) Yea, I'm planning on adding warnings when they're actually on your planets, just been thinkering about a more scalable system of handling these kinds of "ongoing events the player has intel on and should be told about" because honestly there's going to be a fairly large number of them when all's said and done.

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Oddly enough I was playing against 2 Nester AI's but I never saw a 'Nest', unless the Regenerator is the Nest structure?
Out of a rare sense of mercy, the mapgen doesn't seed the nests on all the ai worlds (roughly half at diff 10, scaling down from there), and doesn't place them within 2 or 3 (I forget) of a  human homeworld.  Just so you know, if the testing variable bug wasn't fixed (and I don't think it was; is for 3.179), killing a single AI ship on a planet next to a nest on a MkIV world will result in roughly 800 MkIV Neinzul ships spawning within the first 10 seconds.  If you  keep killing AI ships (at least one every 10 seconds) the spawning will continue at 50/second.  And that's if you're only adjacent to one nest.  Just saying ;)  When the testing variable is off it'll be between 1/50th and 1/100th of that rate, iirc.

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Oh god I broke something. Accidentally made a group of 3000+, then tried to de-group. It's stuck at "waiting for players" now.
You know, yesterday I was looking through the game command creating code for various input events, and noticed that a number of the rarer cases (like control group assignment) were still using the normal string.concat method of building the comma-delimited list of ship object numbers rather than the StringBuilder.Append method.  I thought "ah, they won't do those very often, and shouldn't hit any limits".  Why do I still think things like that?  Anyway, thanks for letting me know, I can put the preventative measures in place.

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lool, why on earth is viral swarmer AI considered Easier
I did those, and this is the first balance pass for them.  To restate: "something Keith did" and "first balance pass".  You know where this is going, right? ;D  Will look at their stats later, and will particularly make sure the flaks are getting the appropriate bonuses against the swarmers (which should mean 1-shot kill, so that a cluster of flaks will eat them with a vengeance).  But also at the more general stats like spawn rate, etc.  Also will reduce the viral cluster-itself attack, I just used the normal cluster attack which is ok for those but the every-wormhole part is a bit much for the virals.

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Offline x4000

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For those unhappy with the current state of the higher-level ion cannons, check out what's coming:  http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Current_Beta#Prerelease_3.179

Also, that includes some buffs to the various warheads for players only, as well as some new warhead options in the existing warhead lines.  And there are other player-focused buffs that are coming, too -- again, the focus here isn't just to make this more difficult, it's more to make it more varied and with more strategic options.  Not to make everything impossible. ;)
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Interesting changes to the Ion cannons.

However, I just loaded an older save game, and I seems that almost all AI planets now got 1 Ion cannon or more (majority of the planets I have visited so far on a 120 planet map). Is the AI supposed to have so many cannons now?
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Offline x4000

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It shouldn't be nearly that many, no.  I suppose it could happen based on the nature of randomization, but... goodness, at any rate.  I may need to adjust the seeding values.  In my tests of new games on difficulty 7, they seem appropriately sparse, though, so maybe it's just an unlucky seed.  Anyone else seeing this?
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Offline superking

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just looking at the changelog, bombers etc now have a bonus against ion cannons- how about mass drivers? its a pretty popular cheese tactic for players to use them as damage spounges atm

Offline orzelek

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Seeing recent prerelease notes make me wonder - will I ever make it to end of the diff 7 game...

It seems that currently AI is getting most of the love :D

PS
Are the starship HP increases a pointer to some kind of XP mechanics for starships?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Seeing recent prerelease notes make me wonder - will I ever make it to end of the diff 7 game...

It seems that currently AI is getting most of the love :D
The players have gotten tons of new toys over the past months, and even without those many players have asked for different types of challenge (not just brute force amounts of what's been there; 2 diff 10 special forces captains give plenty of that), so there is a fair bit of makes-the-game-more-challenging stuff.  Most of it is optional, though, and is not intended to all be used at once (Playing against a Neinzul Nester and a Neinzul Viral Swarmer with the Neinzul Rocketry Corps minor faction and the Hybrid plot on would be... interesting, let's put it that way).  But you can get a very different kind of challenge from game to game, if that's the sort of thing you like.

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Are the starship HP increases a pointer to some kind of XP mechanics for starships?
Not to my knowledge, and I don't think any of our current plans work towards that.  The micro of human-controlled xp-gaining ships gets something fierce.  I have some ideas for later on (like the next major expansion) that may scratch the same itch, but we'll have to see how that goes.
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