Prerelease 3.152 (Science Lab Mark III, More Knowledge/Lab Changes)

[CodeMichael]

Silly me, missing painfully obvious threads.  Thanks for the response!

1. cool, that's kind of what I was thinking, just didn't word it well.
2. I'm a big fan of removing tedium.  I do think that kraiding was a winning strategy, and that the changes, whether you intend it or not, are limiting the amount of knowledge available to players.  You also are addressing this by increasing the cap, so I'll assume you've run the numbers (I have not) and see the average knowledge acquisition as reasonable.
3. Sorry.  I was trying to think for a new player PoV.  I've been trying to introduce players to this game and the easier it is to explain things to them the more likely they are to play.  When I have to cite a number of exceptions-to-the-rule it gets more difficult.  If you think it's a semantics thing not really worthy of consideration, I can't really argue.
4. I am certainly coming from the "did a lot of knowledge raiding" PoV so, yeah, you've got me pegged.  I'll look for that other thread because I'm curious what your actual reasons for having mkI research stations are if they can no longer be used for kraiding.  It seems that their only function now is to penalize the player for forgetting to put them on the newest captured planet.

Again thanks for the response.

[keith.lamothe]

It seems that their only function now is to penalize the player for forgetting to put them on the newest captured planet.

Well, the science lab approach works very gracefully with the multiplayer side of things in particular.  By the way, with the auto-gather-knowledge command its less likely they'll be penalized for forgetting to build a lab (the auto-labs will make their way over by themselves), though they will have to intervene manually if they capture a planet not connected via friendly planets (to prevent auto-labs from doing something stupid).

Hope that helps

[CodeMichael]

All the smart people are in the lab with the moron at the helm?  when will scientists ever learn?

Thanks for talking me through this.  Makes more sense to me now.  Hope I didn't come across as "I fear change, RAWR!", I was mostly just trying to put myself in the same headspace.

[x4000]

No worries, and my pleasure.

To your added notes re: #2, your comments again are based on a skewed view of the game from having been knowledge raiding overmuch.  That was an exploitative tactic that let people get far more knowledge than had ever been intended.  But, that was a tactic used by a small (but overrepresented on the forum) minority of players.  This change just brings those players' experience more in line with the experience that everyone else was already having.

The increase in knowledge in the next version is more related to the influx of new technologies and the increases in tenacity of the AI.  In that regard, having a bit of extra K seems like it will fit the game well, since there is now so much more that players can do with that K compared to 1.0 of the game.  It's the equivalent of having knowledge-raided (under the old model) 5 planets in a game where you capture 20 planets.

Regarding #3, I see your point, but I'm not overly worried about it.  The abilities of most of the economic stuff changes with each mark level (just look at the engineers), so I don't think of it as being particularly different.  In point of fact it is the most advanced science lab, since it does something that neither of the other two can do.  But given that all three are available right at the start, hopefully new players would intuit that it's probably not expected that they will just build the highest tier only.  And I believe the description text also notes its intended function, too.

Anyway, hope that helps!  And no worries on the questions, it's just been a long couple of days of these same discussions (aside from #3) repeatedly.

[keith.lamothe]

The near-removal of k-raiding was certainly a big change, I can understand why someone not following the megathread would have seen the release notes and had a cow

[Sizzle]

MooooOoooOOOooOOO!!!!

[x4000]

[CodeMichael]

"I moo when I get scared"

http://www.casttv.com/video/a32dvz/cleveland-jr-i-moo-when-i-get-scared-video

[keith.lamothe]

We may have to account for that, yeah.  Probably these specific units should not stack, but it's just a flat 2x multiplier if any of them are there.  Of course, that adds inconsistencies, but I think something along those lines would make sense.  Keith, can you look at that?

Ok, that's in for 3.153

[Winter Born]

Thanks for fixing the tugs not pulling the towed ships all the way back to the MRS.

[keith.lamothe]

Did we fix that?

[rubikscube]

bumping to wait for 3.153

[platinawolf]

There goes my primary tactics... And the Parasite just got massively more powerful ^^*

[Ozymandiaz]

There goes my primary tactics... And the Parasite just got massively more powerful ^^*

Leech starships are our new friends And mercs ;P

I like the 2500 cap per planet tho, adds some more flexibility.

This new change is a big one, for sure, but I think they will make it work pretty well, after all they do good work! (and that reminds me, I must try and get in on Tidalis beta as well when I get around to it ... ) 

[TinyShenanigans]

Will this break the tutorial?  I think at some point you are asked to K-raid during it.  Actually with all of the changes since it was made I imagine there's a bunch of things that could be added to the tut.

I would love to see a tutorial revamp covering the shiny new K system and context menu and stuff, I realise at this time these changes are in beta mode and that work on Tidalis etc. might mean that updating it would fall pretty low on the priority list, however IMO unless you are introduced to the game via a multiplayer match with experienced players and voice chat, the tutorial campaign is pretty essential to get your head around some of the game mechanics especially for new/beginning players.

Anyway, I love this game keep up the good work.

Shen.