Author Topic: Prerelease 3.116 (Release Candidate 3, Bugfixes, Manufactory balance change)  (Read 5463 times)

Offline zebramatt

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-Metal and Crystal manufactories no longer cost energy to run.

This sounds significant...

Offline x4000

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-Metal and Crystal manufactories no longer cost energy to run.

This sounds significant...

Yes.  Now it there is literally no economic reason to not use the auto-manufactory management functionality (that is on by default).  The node for disabling that is still there, because some people just like to do it by hand apparently, but now there's no energy concern in the equation for how to best manage a flow-based economy through manufactories.
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Offline Lancefighter

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awesome! my single-planet engineer node made it in.

(yay for not realizing it for a good deal of pre-releases later)
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Offline Doddler

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Yes.  Now it there is literally no economic reason to not use the auto-manufactory management functionality (that is on by default).

I quite frequently run into a situation where I need (or want) to manually manage them.  Often it looks something like this:

I have 100,000 crystal.
I have 200,000 metal.
I am gaining resources at -500 crystal / +100 metal due to some crazy turret production or something, usually a short term spike in costs.

If I don't manually control my crystal manufactuaries and enable them, I will run out of crystal and stall.  If I run the crystal manufactuaries on from the start, I can avoid that situation.

Though if I did have enough manufactuaries to produce 500 crystal to counteract the drain it wouldn't be important (would need over 60), but manufactuaries also have a cost, and I can manually advert meltdown with considerably less than that.

Offline x4000

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Yes.  Now it there is literally no economic reason to not use the auto-manufactory management functionality (that is on by default).

I quite frequently run into a situation where I need (or want) to manually manage them.  Often it looks something like this:

I have 100,000 crystal.
I have 200,000 metal.
I am gaining resources at -500 crystal / +100 metal due to some crazy turret production or something, usually a short term spike in costs.

If I don't manually enable crystal manufactuaries, I will run out of crystal and stall.  If I run the crystal manufactuaries on from the start, I can avoid that situation.

Though if I did have enough manufactuaries to produce 500 crystal to counteract the drain it wouldn't be important (would need over 60), but manufactuaries also have a cost, and I can manually advert meltdown with considerably less than that.

You won't stall, that's the whole point.  Assuming that you have enough crystal manufactories (I like to have around 30 of each, but sometimes need as much as 45 of one), then they will kick in once you are sub 1,000 stored crystal, and will start draining your metal. 

Assuming that your turrets or whatever are finished before you run out of crystal AND metal from that process, then your economy will go back to normal and the crystal manufactories will turn themselves off.  If you do wind up running out of both resources, then you'll stall out and all the manufactories will turn themselves off to avoid making the situation worse (but nothing would have saved that from stalling out on the production side, in that scenario -- you'd need to adjust your expenses instead of your production).

There's absolutely no reason to carry a big ongoing balance of metal or crystal, since you're able to adjust both income and expenses as needed.  In terms of absolute gross metal + crystal income, your income is best by always letting the sort of algorithm employed by the auto-manufactory management, rather than trying to use manufactories preemptively to keep a large balance of one resource or the other.  It turns them on at the last second in order to avoid using them at all if at all possible, since they do come at a cost, basically, which is something exceedingly hard to do by hand.


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Offline keith.lamothe

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I've never investigated closely, as I just maintain 10-50k balances of both where possible, but generally when one of my resources gets below 1000 it starts flashing and things start stalling, even if it's, say, 500 stockpile and -50/s.  Though, like I said, never really checked all that closely.
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Offline x4000

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Trust me, I run it quite close to the redline quite often, and it does just fine there. :)  The resources do flash in the top of the screen, but the actual producers, etc, don't have any troubles there.
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Offline WinterBorn

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Ther is already a thread on this some where when at or near max on one res auto enabling the manufactories to fill up the other lower res --- IE 600,000 metal 350,000 crystal -- the single player is wasting metal if the manufactorys are not turned on to boost crystal production.


In multi the excess goes to team members so maxing on one is unlikely to result in wastage.

Offline Buttons840

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As far as resources go the only real failure is having 600,000 of any either.  As long as I have enough manufactories to put my larger resource in the negative income I consider myself OK; even if I'm not working at the absolute fasted speed.  The only time I disable the auto-management is when I want to build a large reserve of both resources to use on a large project, like bringing a golem online; I want to get it done fast, and move it to safety.

Any ETA on 3.117?  Looking forward to some of this fixes.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Any ETA on 3.117?  Looking forward to some of this fixes.
Chris, I'm redoing the epilogue stuff right now since it's basically been a placeholder for a month and a half, but after that (or before, if you like) it's ready to push out if you have time.
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Offline x4000

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Sure thing.  Shall we aim for 9ish EST as usual, or...?
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Well, I'm hoping to have this done long before then, but if that works for your schedule that should be fine, will let you know when it's ready.
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Offline x4000

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Offline Doddler

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I see your point, if you have enough manufactuaries you won't stall in the end.  Counteracting a -500 in resources takes about 60 manufactuaries, which is actually kind of expensive to build.  I'm just saying I could counteract such a short term shortfall with considerably less manufactuaries (about 10-20) if I had them generating crystal before I hit 0.

That is another good point, there's no reason not to have a manufactuary on if you hit the cap in one resource and have a lower amount of the other.  If I cap metal, the excess should be going into crystal manufactuaries and not wasted, but you can't enable them without turning off automanagement.

Offline Buttons840

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It's not so hard to build a no-auto-management mode, and then just delete it when your through.