Author Topic: Prerelease 3.111 (Border aggression changes, science labs+, bugfixes)  (Read 6680 times)

Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 3.111 (Border aggression changes, science labs+, bugfixes)
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2010, 12:12:33 pm »
Or "Make it stop!  Maybe if I go crush the humans, this thing will leave me alone.  Does this thing belong to the humans!?"  Either way works fine for me, lore-wise. :)

And certainly when that behavior kicks in for when the humans are making the final assault, it does make sense.  Often in the heat of battle, a few core ships sneaking away from the battle is not noticed, and it's easy for the AI to sneak out a victory while the player is distracted.  Sort of an interstellar game of chicken. :)
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Offline Doddler

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Re: Prerelease 3.111 (Border aggression changes, science labs+, bugfixes)
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2010, 12:42:57 pm »
It's a bit odd though that the devourer will alert a planet that the devourer can't actually pose a threat to.  It makes sense for the smaller world where the devourer has a good time killing everything but the core worlds, the AI has nothing to worry about.  :P

Offline Kalzarius

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Re: Prerelease 3.111 (Border aggression changes, science labs+, bugfixes)
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2010, 08:25:36 pm »
-The formula for the new "border aggression" AI Mechanic has been changed as follows:
Difficulty >= 10 = 3300 - ( AI Progress )
Difficulty >= 9 = 3600 - ( AI Progress )
Difficulty >= 8 = 3900 - ( AI Progress )
Difficulty >= 7 = 4100 - ( AI Progress / 2 )
Difficulty >= 6 = 4400 - ( AI Progress / 2 )
Difficulty >= 5 = 4600 - ( AI Progress / 2 )
Difficulty < 5 = 5500 - ( AI Progress / 2 )
More info on this here: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Border_Aggression

All I can say is ouch. We loaded up our game with just 9 AI planets left and the threat went from 400 something to 13,940. The entire game ran rather sluggish compared to previous weeks thanks to the sudden consumption of system resources brought about by the 13,500 ships that had previously not been a CPU burden thanks to cold storage. I might say this area may need some more balance, particularly if those ships remain behind enemy lines doing nothing observable (i.e., wasting CPU time), but this is an old game and this is likely an artifact not specifically of the high AI progress (2400) but rather the high numbers of AI ships (one AI is a turtle, if I recall) on each of the remaining planets. There are roughly 50,000 AI ships left and only 9 planets for them.

Since cold storage was introduced to improve performance, this mechanic may need some tweaking, because as it stands cold storage is going to be far less effective at reducing CPU load during high AI ship count games.

Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 3.111 (Border aggression changes, science labs+, bugfixes)
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2010, 08:30:02 pm »
All I can say is ouch. We loaded up our game with just 9 AI planets left and the threat went from 400 something to 13,940. The entire game ran rather sluggish compared to previous weeks thanks to the sudden consumption of system resources brought about by the 13,500 ships that had previously not been a CPU burden thanks to cold storage. I might say this area may need some more balance, particularly if those ships remain behind enemy lines doing nothing observable (i.e., wasting CPU time), but this is an old game and this is likely an artifact not specifically of the high AI progress (2400) but rather the high numbers of AI ships (one AI is a turtle, if I recall) on each of the remaining planets. There are roughly 50,000 AI ships left and only 9 planets for them.

Since cold storage was introduced to improve performance, this mechanic may need some tweaking, because as it stands cold storage is going to be far less effective at reducing CPU load during high AI ship count games.

Yeah, I was thinking about you with this -- I mean, with really old games like that, this would break them.  This normally would not be a performance drain, because those ships won't stay behind enemy lines -- all 14,000 of them should be attacking you imminently.  Normally if you were playing an entire game with this mechanic present, the ships would never build up to quite that degree, and you'd be facing more attacks all throughout, and the entire mechanic is a bit different.  I think you'd still be able to play your sort of game, and without any particular performance penalty (if anything, this will help even more than cold storage as far as CPU savings go, because it keeps the total number of AI ships a bit lower over time), but with certain unusual older games like yours, it may be a rough transition to be sure.

I am not surprised that the game ran more sluggishly there, but I am surprised that these guys weren't attacking you; that is really odd.
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Offline Kalzarius

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Re: Prerelease 3.111 (Border aggression changes, science labs+, bugfixes)
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2010, 02:54:36 am »
Yeah, I was thinking about you with this -- I mean, with really old games like that, this would break them.  This normally would not be a performance drain, because those ships won't stay behind enemy lines -- all 14,000 of them should be attacking you imminently.  Normally if you were playing an entire game with this mechanic present, the ships would never build up to quite that degree, and you'd be facing more attacks all throughout, and the entire mechanic is a bit different.  I think you'd still be able to play your sort of game, and without any particular performance penalty (if anything, this will help even more than cold storage as far as CPU savings go, because it keeps the total number of AI ships a bit lower over time), but with certain unusual older games like yours, it may be a rough transition to be sure.

I am not surprised that the game ran more sluggishly there, but I am surprised that these guys weren't attacking you; that is really odd.

In the beginning, they came quite quickly in waves of 2000 or so, and then by the time we cleaned that up, they'd reinforce, and it would be back up to 12k or 13k, and then another wave of 2000.  That continued for a while and then stopped.  And they stopped up to 13,000.  Then a 9150 CPA was announced.  The timer counted down and then there were a few attacks here or there, but the threat remained, got up to 14,000 I think.  And just stopped.  So we employed a lightning warhead enema that resulted in a wave of 6000 core battle frigates coming in.  That was fun.  ;D

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Prerelease 3.111 (Border aggression changes, science labs+, bugfixes)
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2010, 07:09:51 am »
Wow.  Sounds like the AI needs to start peace talks ;)
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