Author Topic: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)  (Read 5015 times)

Offline Thasero

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2010, 02:14:36 pm »
The balance issue for the Riot Starship is probably the low knowledge cost for a Mk I.  A knowledge cost of 3 or 4 thousand would be more appropriate.

I think what we're seeing is that "long-range disabling of engines" is a powerful ability to have at all, much like "extreme high speed and the ability to shoot through force fields" (raid starships) or "reclamation" (leech starships).

Useful comparisons:

1)  How many mk I bombers you could destroy with a unit cap of mk II fighters.  I would expect the riot starships to be able to disable more bombers than the fighters can destroy, since disabling is a lower hurdle and the fighters have other desirable qualities (i.e. not weak against turrets, higher speed, quick to replace, good damage bonuses against many bonus ship types).
2)  How much damage you could do with a unit cap of Zenith Starships.  I would expect the riot starships to be able to effectively paralyze all the mobile ships on a planet if the Zenith Starships, in the same situation, would be able to destroy them.
3)  How many bombers you can disable by building a unit cap of Spider Turrets in a system.  Note that the spider turret is basically the immobile turret version of a riot starship; low raw combat ability, but disables engines from a great distance.

Offline Kalzarius

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2010, 03:20:15 pm »

Updates in 3.032 (now out):

-Fixed a thread synchronization bug with Game Command pooling that was causing IndexOutOfBounds exceptions in game.

Seems this issue is recurring in 3.032.  :(

http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,3872.0.html



Offline Anticept

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2010, 04:30:07 pm »

That would pretty much drastically change both how the AI Alert works, and would make threat pointless and AI retreats really ineffective. ;)

I'm not sure how the alert system and such works anyways, was just a guess :P

Also, are anti-armor ships supposed to be ineffective against tanks?

No, they are supposed to be strong against them.

Might need to check them then, my anti-armor tanks got their asses handed to them on a silver platter. They even gave me ice cream shortly before separating my entrails from my abdomen. However it wasn't a very detailed test as it was a fight for the home station. Needless to say that was pretty much it as they shredded my T2 shield generator (quite quickly for T1 tanks...)

They don't have a "strong vs tanks" in their description, and I think I saw the tanks saying they had a "strong vs anti-armor ships" in theirs.

On a side note, is it possible to script our own campaigns? Could provide quite a twist...

One last thing: I request an "armory" mode. It would consist of a single system and an interface where I can place ships of my choosing, and enemy ships and the AI mode. Also I could place them on the map, or chose to have them come through a wormhole in waves :>
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 04:35:17 pm by Anticept »

Offline raptor331

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2010, 06:05:54 pm »
Mee thinks this modular thing should be used more often, this riot starship idea turned out much better than I had anticipated.

Offline I-KP

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2010, 07:41:01 pm »
In-game star ship shield effects look a bit rough.

In-game...


Normal PNG blending...


I can only assume there is some freaky process being applied over forcefields to make the PNG look like it does.  It's nothing I've done.
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Offline Anticept

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2010, 08:15:40 pm »
Mee thinks this modular thing should be used more often, this riot starship idea turned out much better than I had anticipated.

I'd rather the modular nature not get used *too* much as that adds a lot of micromanagement... especially if fleet support modules get added, then it becomes a real pain to sort out which ones gave what type of support.

Offline I-KP

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2010, 09:13:03 pm »
-Added shotgun noise from I-KP to the Riot Control Shotgun Module shot.

Sweetness!  Although, are you sure?  I'm not hearing it in-game.
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Offline TheDeadlyShoe

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2010, 09:18:22 pm »
Quote
I'd rather the modular nature not get used *too* much as that adds a lot of micromanagement... especially if fleet support modules get added, then it becomes a real pain to sort out which ones gave what type of support.
Well, if modules are limited to Starships ( and maybe Fortresses) it's not a big deal.

I imagine one of the reasons modules are being introduced are to provide moderate repair costs for damage starships - instead of just the repair fee you hvave to pay to replace destroyed modules. I know x4000 was bellyaching about the long-term cost efficiency of starships earlier.

Of course, some starships arn't really suited to modules. Cloakers and Dreadnoughts come to mind.

Offline vince0018

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2010, 09:35:15 pm »
 I just got an idea about the problem with drawing turrets over starships but under other starships. What if as an alternative to this you make it so the turrent and shield modules draw under 'everything' so you will never see them on your ship. Because for other starships you don't really see where the weapons fire is coming from anyway. This would be a lot easier then the headache for drawing overtop. Unless you really want to be able to see the turrets, for me they'd just seem a little weird, especially seeing a shield generator sitting on top of a starship. Unless they were shrunk.

Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2010, 11:10:26 pm »
New version: http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,3888.0.html

Oh, and I-KP, about the blending issue -- there is a certain level of opacity that the force field image must be, or it will do stuff like that.  If you keep the opacity to the same level as the base image, that will solve the issue.  I'm using a very tricky blending mode for force fields only so that they can overlap without becoming more opaque as they do so.
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Offline I-KP

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2010, 09:04:31 am »
New version: http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,3888.0.html

Oh, and I-KP, about the blending issue -- there is a certain level of opacity that the force field image must be, or it will do stuff like that.  If you keep the opacity to the same level as the base image, that will solve the issue.  I'm using a very tricky blending mode for force fields only so that they can overlap without becoming more opaque as they do so.
This isn't going to work then.  I can't tell what opacity a PNG is by looking at it alone and the above SFF (ship forcefield) is drawn to the desired opacity by eye only (I didn't know there were FF process that mucked about with opacity afterwards), there is no 'opaque' version.  Additive layering will make the PNG look dreadful.  Is there a way to cancel the FF post-processing and just display the native PNG?
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Offline I-KP

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2010, 09:21:54 am »
Okay, it looks horrible in native mode but maybe the esoteric FF post-process will calm it down in-game...


(Use this PNG.: Save As.)
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Offline vonduus

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2010, 09:24:17 am »
Wow!
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2010, 09:50:10 am »
Okay, it looks horrible in native mode but maybe the esoteric FF post-process will calm it down in-game...
Thanks I-KP :)  I tried it in game and it has a similar effect as when I bumped up the base alpha value it was using, it shows much more dramatically but has a bit of a purple "bleed" around it from some kind of blending or other.  I'll need to see about just handling the render differently for these and see if it will help.  Of course, there are overlap-behavior reasons for the current blending so it may be more complex than that.

By the way if you want to test an alternate version in-game you can just replace Images\ForceField\4.png with the desired image.

And the shotgun noise is certainly playing when I play.  It sounds awesome!

Enemy bombers entering periphery of range, laser blasts ringing out...
Enemy bombers closing the range, machine gun chatter...
Enemy bombers get a bit clos-BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!

:)
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Offline I-KP

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Re: Prerelease 3.032 (Riot Starship updates, bugfixes)
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2010, 10:24:09 am »
I see.  Well, there isn't much I can do about the SFF appearance from my side of the fence then, sorry.  Left in your very capable hands it is.  ;)

The Shotgun SFX is in there after all but it is very quiet (quieter even than Fighters).  

EDIT:-
More grunty boomage here: http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,3893.0.html
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