Author Topic: Prerelease 1.014U (Small Balance, updated backgrounds, bugfixes, res tooltips)  (Read 2886 times)

Offline x4000

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The Latest prerelease is now out: http://www.arcengames.com/share/AIWar1014U.zip

That version is an upgrade from version 1.013, so you have to already have 1.013 (or greater) installed. Just unzip it into your game folder (usually C:\Program Files\Arcen Games\AI War\ unless you specified something else). Please make sure that your unzip process keeps the folder structure from the zip file, rather than just unpacking all of the files into the base target directory.

What's new since 1.014T:
(Cumulative release notes since 1.013 are attached at the bottom)

-------------------

-The amount of energy generated by home planet command stations has been doubled.

-When players have a higher-than-normal number of starting planets, the ship cap for all players is increased proportionately to the number of extra starting locations.

-There are now tooltips for the resources and other HUD elements along the top of the screen (including the new threat level display).

CHANGES FROM PAST PRERELEASES
--------------

-The size of the controls window is now scaled to the width of the controls image.

-Fix to bug in prior version where the games were not loading right in some cases.

NEW ART - Philippe Chabot
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Background Starfields
Background Nebulae (still partly inwork)
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 01:00:22 am by x4000 »
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Offline Fiskbit

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I think you need to start the player off with more energy. When I start, I initially build all of the harvesters, but this puts me into negative energy right off the bat.

(Furthermore, ctrl+click for harvesters ignores energy restrictions)


Edit: Well, okay, liq3 says I should build power plants before building harvesters. Those harvesters take forever to start building, though. This drastically changes the early game, and if you're playing a high difficulty, you're probably getting enemy ships attacking you right away and need the extra speed.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:42:30 pm by Fiskbit »
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Offline x4000

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Well, but with the extra resource income, plus the higher starting resources in general, having all of those harvesters right off is no longer necessary to defend yourself right from the get-go.  I think the current model is actually kind of more SupCom-ish.  I see your point, though -- I thought that aspect of SupCom was annoying. ;)  In the next version, I'll make it so that the home planet command stations give off another 10k energy.
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Offline CautiousChaos

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So far the changes seem pretty good.  I think the nebulae are coming out a bit too milky.  Just an opinion, not something that effects my gameplay.

Offline x4000

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So far the changes seem pretty good.  I think the nebulae are coming out a bit too milky.  Just an opinion, not something that effects my gameplay.

Yeah, about half of them are just amorphous blobs right now.  Phil is only about halfway done with them, so they should be much more shapely soon.  But thanks for the feedback there!
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Yuck  :-\

Ok, whatever you changed, i absolutely hate it

2000 (normal) ships and a standard homeworld defense needs 800000 Energy

Thats a 8 with 5 0's
to be exact, 815975 Energy
Thats just MK1-MK3 ships and turrets
Before it needed exactly 300k energy (or so)
Just to make it clear
This means to sustain 2000 ships and turret defense of 400 for 1 world you need
apr.

-700 Resources (standard income of homeworld is 150 unboosted - for me at 100% apr 230-300)
-at least 6 Planets, which you then couldn't even defend properly (thats the resources you need to pay for the energy, ALONE)

that means for a decent defense a player would now need at least 6 planets with REALLY good resources to even sustain 400 turrets and 2000 ships.

With 400 turrets you can't even cover 2 planets right.

So ehm, i am reverting back to the previous pre-release q and stop all updating  :-[ option to disable that energy gens use resources or strike!

Who had this crazy idea? This dead-ends every single game i played (and saved), ever. In no way is that resource use possible to sustain in ANY form.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 11:25:27 pm by eRe4s3r »
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Offline x4000

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Please see this thread.

EDIT:  I might add, your feedback is much appreciated, the rudeness not so much.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 11:36:09 pm by x4000 »
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Offline eRe4s3r

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I am sorry for the rudeness  :) This change just got me from the wrong angle, it breaks my own play style approach entirely, so if there is no option to disable this i simple can not update anymore.
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Offline x4000

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Sorry to hear that; whatever is arrived at in the end will be the new core mechanic, and not something that can be disabled for that reason -- it will be a core part of the balance.  You have a chance to influence that design, as you already have been influencing it, but in general you'll need to take more planets or else play with a handicap for yourself if you want to "trick" this into being disabled.
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Offline Echo35

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  • More turrets! MORE TURRETS!
Just got through a game with DarkFox. Really not sure how I like it. The energy requirements are insane, and so are the resource costs. I lost my two command stations due to a huge wave of cloaked fighters early on (Almost 1,000 and that wave came in barely an hour in. The AI Progress wasnt even 200 yet), and one of my Mk 2 power plants. I could no longer rebuild. I had some colony ships, but couldn't build my command posts because of the lack of energy, and I couldn't build more energy because of a lack of resources thanks to the destroyed command posts (They were both negative at this point, and sinking fast). Even with Fox giving me nearly all of his economy I couldn't climb out and just gave up. I know its the point that when your Command Posts get wiped you should be losing anyway, but in multiplayer, that kinda stinks, especially late game when you have so many power plants and/or command posts, just losing a few could  tank your economy. I'll try another game or two, but I might just end up going back to 1.13

EDIT: Just to clarify, we were playing two level 6 Random/Easier AI's, and I only had stuff on my home planet (The second just had a command post and two Mk 2 Power Plants). Granted my command posts were gone, but I still say there should be a way to rebuild, especially in multiplayer. Perhaps making your command post free if you don't have any? That way you could at least delete extra power plants and start over somewhere.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 12:30:39 am by Echo35 »

Offline x4000

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Just got through a game with DarkFox. Really not sure how I like it. The energy requirements are insane, and so are the resource costs. I lost my two command stations due to a huge wave of cloaked fighters early on (Almost 1,000 and that wave came in barely an hour in. The AI Progress wasnt even 200 yet), and one of my Mk 2 power plants. I could no longer rebuild. I had some colony ships, but couldn't build my command posts because of the lack of energy, and I couldn't build more energy because of a lack of resources thanks to the destroyed command posts (They were both negative at this point, and sinking fast). Even with Fox giving me nearly all of his economy I couldn't climb out and just gave up. I know its the point that when your Command Posts get wiped you should be losing anyway, but in multiplayer, that kinda stinks, especially late game when you have so many power plants and/or command posts, just losing a few could  tank your economy. I'll try another game or two, but I might just end up going back to 1.13

EDIT: Just to clarify, we were playing two level 6 Random/Easier AI's, and I only had stuff on my home planet (The second just had a command post and two Mk 2 Power Plants). Granted my command posts were gone, but I still say there should be a way to rebuild, especially in multiplayer. Perhaps making your command post free if you don't have any? That way you could at least delete extra power plants and start over somewhere.

Please see the later posts in this thread regarding the energy discussion.  I think the V will really help out with the resource availability in the late game, but it seems like this game was just early on in?  Losing your home planet command station is definitely devastating, and it is something that you can rebuild from, but probably not if you just have one planet.  Having a force field up is really a must, with the larger waves of enemies.

This is a key thing about the game in general, which is just amplified with these recent releases:  you need a lot of planets in order to have good buffer.  I try to take one new planet around every 45 minutes (so that'd be one planet total in that timeframe with a team).  Having a buffer not only protects your more valuable planets from the ferocity of the frontline raids, it also lets you build a huge energy buffer (if you want), and gives you a real ton of resources.  If you don't overdraft yourself too early without actually expanding your territory, the current versions of the game actually give you more economic power than ever before.

Let me know what you think, I'd be curious to know your thoughts.  I'd also be interested in seeing a save file from that game if you still think something isn't kosher.
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Offline Echo35

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Let me know what you think, I'd be curious to know your thoughts.  I'd also be interested in seeing a save file from that game if you still think something isn't kosher.

I expanded out at about that rate (It was less than an hour when my team mate and I got our second planets) and its how the game works, so I know there's no bugs, but I just think that, if you have more than one planet, losing one shouldn't completely wreck your game, expecially when you have a well built up team mate. I have an auto save from it, which is a bit before I rage quit ( ::)), but I'll attach it anyway.

EDIT: I know technically I lost both my Posts, but I still say that falling into an economic stall shouldn't be that easily induced, and climbing back out again shouldn't be so hard.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 01:03:03 am by Echo35 »

Offline x4000

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Offline x4000

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Let me know what you think, I'd be curious to know your thoughts.  I'd also be interested in seeing a save file from that game if you still think something isn't kosher.

I expanded out at about that rate (It was less than an hour when my team mate and I got our second planets) and its how the game works, so I know there's no bugs, but I just think that, if you have more than one planet, losing one shouldn't completely wreck your game, expecially when you have a well built up team mate. I have an auto save from it, which is a bit before I rage quit ( ::)), but I'll attach it anyway.

EDIT: I know technically I lost both my Posts, but I still say that falling into an economic stall shouldn't be that easily induced, and climbing back out again shouldn't be so hard.

Okay, looking at this save, it definitely looks like your expansion rates are perfectly fine -- well within the range of normalcy, not enough to cause any significant problems there.  Bear in mind that I am looking at this in version V, which is a bit altered so it might be coloring my view of what I am seeing here.

But, at any rate, looking at it in version V I see you with 63k net energy, and Darkfox with 73k net energy.  You've got 924 ships, and he only has around 700 or so.  I notice he has a force field up over his home station and good wormhole defenses.  Maybe a tad light on the tractor turrets for my taste and I think that force field over the wormhole is probably pointless since all it does is prevent the AI ships from escaping -- when coming in they pop around any force fields in their way, by design (and yours do the same if they have a force field in such a position).  But anyway, that's looking pretty decently defended with not a lot of waste in either of your planets.

It looks like what has happened here is basically a critical lapse in early defenses, which let them take out one of your home planets.  That's absolutely devastating, as you've said, and I don't feel like the penalties are too stiff -- if it is later into the game, it won't matter nearly as much, but this early in the game it is crippling because you are about to lose the rest of the way unless you battle your way back.  In most other RTS games it doesn't even let you keep playing once your "king" or "supreme commander" is lost, that's just it and your allies have to keep going alone.  AI War lets you keep going and you can still win as a team even though you are "dead."  If this were Chess, you have basically already been checkmated.  Losing any other ship in the game is not so devastating, but the importance of the home planet command station is such that it warrants extra redundant layers of defense over what you would put over anything else.

The waves of 1,000 or more ships is not terribly surprising at this stage in the game -- your turrets and tractor beams will easily dispatch that many if placed in groups of maybe 10 tractors and 40ish turrets.  Some enemies will likely slip by, but you can still defend against that many ships without too many losses.  When paired with the cloaking ships, you will also need tachyon beam emitters and some of the ships may still be immune to tractors, so in those cases you want to make sure you have force fields up around your home command station, plus lots of turrets over there to pick off the ships as they try to bust down that force field.

Then, the focus is getting buffer planets on all sides of your home planet, which it looks like what you were already doing.

Again, I'm looking at this in V, but seeing your current state I think this is not an unwinnable position despite the fact your home is lost.  Yes you have a wave of around 1000 ships coming in once again, but they are autocannons and planes, which are not the strongest.  When I was looking at it they killed your remaining command station once again, but then they went to your ally's planet and all died on his defenses -- and he didn't even have that many turrets up at all, only 7 mark I turrets inside his mark III force field over his home command station, and that blew through over 900 AI ships with his force field only getting down to 91%.  He lost zero other ships with that wave.

So that then puts him at a pretty good situation, he still has 171k metal and 61k crystal at that point, and can easily give you a couple of colony ships to take those other two planets back and get you back on your feet with resources.  You still have a fleet of over 800 ships come to that, so you've got a lot of muscle to move around during this same time, taking more buffer planets to keep them from raiding your still-resource-rich home planet quite so much.  In another 20 minutes you could be basically back on your feet, with stronger defenses in place, and ready to aggressively expand back out into the galaxy with that huge fleet of yours.

Your ally would be in the hole resource-wise for just a bit longer, but then will also be back up to his full strength once you are settled with your two planets, and then you're both back on the offensive together.

In all, I'm not seeing any major deficiencies or imbalances here, it looks like the AI just caught you by surprise -- it happens.  Of course, the resource view may be a bit different since I am looking at it in V, but that's the new current version.
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Offline Echo35

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But, at any rate, looking at it in version V I see you with 63k net energy...

NET energy? I was about 30,000 BELOW. Since the penalties have been lifted in V, I do agree that would be recoverable, but with how it was in the version I was playing, I was toast.