Author Topic: Prerelease 1.011I (More Speedups, Minor New Art, Shrinking Force Fields)  (Read 2945 times)

Offline x4000

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Warning:  There are some significant AI shifts in version 1.011A and up, which is likely to make it much harder given the same difficulty level.  So if you are loading older savegames that were close, you might find yourself losing if you are not careful.  Just fair warning!

The Latest prerelease is now out: http://www.arcengames.com/share/AIWar1011I.zip

That version is an upgrade from version 1.010, so you have to already have 1.010 (or greater) installed. Just unzip it into your game folder (usually C:\Program Files\Arcen Games\AI War\ unless you specified something else). Please make sure that your unzip process keeps the folder structure from the zip file, rather than just unpacking all of the files into the base target directory.

What's new since 1.010H:
(Cumulative release notes since 1.010 are attached at the bottom)

-------------------

-AI ships now send three little Mark I fighters through wormholes immediately prior to the emergence of every wave.  This prevents things like electric shuttles and lightning turrets from doing quite so much damage in the first blast (and is a tactic that human players use to great effect, too).

-AI melee ships under force fields won't lurk, but will attack as normal.

-Several efficiency improvements have been made to the AI thread, and the AI tactics have had a few tweaks to make them a bit faster and more accurate also.  This is mostly relevant for single-processor CPUs.

-The AI now queues up multiple potential targets on each targeting pass, which means there is much less stopping and starting when it is chasing player ships from a long distance when player ships are commonly being killed.

-The targeting algorithm on the main thread has been made more efficient for planets with large numbers (4,000+) of enemy ships.  The efficiency gain is around 10%-20%, depending on the type of ships in use.

-The collision detection algorithm has been made much more efficient for batches of ships that are thousands or more in size.  This also makes the blob of ships more "spiky," but the efficiency gain is worth it for the really large fleets.

-A new "Zoom-In Hotkeys Center On Cursor" option has been added to the Zoom/Pan section of the settings window.

-Space tugs will no longer try to bring ships back to still-under-construction mobile repair stations.

-Space tugs will no longer randomly push ships around when there is no local mobile repair station to bring them to.

-Space tugs will no longer pick up ships that are in the middle of assisting another ship (like engineers assigned to repair/accelerate).

-The AI now views starships and ion cannons as higher-priority targets to take out, since they are expensive (and in the case of ion cannons irreplaceable).

-The knowledge counts over science labs now only appear over ships of the same team as the local player.

-The message log between players now keeps the last 40 messages instead of the last 15.

-The range of tachyon beams emitted by astro trains and the scout starship has been increased.

-It is no longer possible to issue move orders that would try to send ships outside the valid area of a planet.

-The basic size of force fields have been increased, but force fields now shrink in size as they take damage, protecting fewer and fewer ships as they shrink.

-The way the per-AI-player per-planet ship cap is calculated is now different.  Previously it was always just a flat 2000 per player.  Now it is 250 x the number of command posts and stations, with a minimum cap of 250 and a maximum cap of 2500.  This makes clearing command posts a lot more effective a way of limiting AI growth in planets (it already was effective, but now it is even more so).

-It is now possible to use the ship level limiters (N+0-5) in conjunction with one another.  So N+1+2 limits to all tech 1 and 2 ships, for instance.

-There is now a ship selection limiter of N+7, which selects only ships with damaged engines.  Also there is now Space+N+7, which selects only ships with perfectly healthy engines.


NEW ART (by Philippe Chabot, Arcen's new artist)
--------------
-Mode button (Fast & Dangerous or Normal)
-Timer background box.
-Mission background box.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 12:12:41 am by x4000 »
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Offline Pandemic

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Bug:
There seems to be a problem with Mark 3 Force Fields bumping into each other. I bombed the (enemy) forcefield a little, so mine outranged his, so I was able to push it around. However, after I did I zoomed in so I could see the actual picture, not the icon, but it wasn't visible. The icon was, but when zoomed in enough it just wasn't there. An obvious fix to this would be to not let Mark 3 Force Fields push other Mark 3 Force Fields around, but I don't like this solution simply because it makes for a good strategy; kill the Force Field a little, bump it away, kill everything underneath and ignore the Force Field.

Bug:
Lighting Turrets (and possibly Electric Shuttles?) are able to fire underneath Mark 3 FF.

EDIT: I'm assuming this is a bug, and probably due to the logic that they use to attack... I would call this a bug because it defeats the entire purpose of a 70k crystal piece of machinery, and attacks *everything* underneath it.

EDIT: Well, this apparently isn't a bug, but that doesn't mean I like it <_<. Maybe make a giant sign on the Mark III FFs, saying that Infiltrators and Electric Shuttles/Turrets can fire underneath it?

Suggestion:
Mark 3 Force Fields be selected without having to Shift + Drag.

EDIT: Nevermind; the reason I had suggested this was because I use it on the attack, rather then defense. However, it makes a lot more sense that it needs to be Shift-clicked if you're defending... I can live with control grouping stuff :P.

Suggestion:
Maybe the AI does at a higher level, but they should use Mark 3 FF to attack, or at very least move it around to defend the most valuable stuff while defending.


-Pandemic
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 08:29:01 pm by Pandemic »
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Offline Revenantus

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Bug:
Lighting Turrets (and possibly Electric Shuttles?) are able to fire underneath Mark 3 FF.

EDIT: I'm assuming this is a bug, and probably due to the logic that they use to attack... I would call this a bug because it defeats the entire purpose of a 70k crystal piece of machinery, and attacks *everything* underneath it.

This is intentional, I believe - http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,321.msg2160.html#msg2160

Offline Pandemic

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Ahhhhhhhh!

Well, ok. I guess I can live with that, but there should be a giant poster somewhere, that says that they can :P.  I almost got my whole army killed because I thought they couldn't :o.


-Pandemic
http://www.di.fm/wma/trance.asx
"Freedom is the ability to say 2 plus 2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follows."  -George Orwell, 1984

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
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Bug:
There seems to be a problem with Mark 3 Force Fields bumping into each other. I bombed the (enemy) forcefield a little, so mine outranged his, so I was able to push it around. However, after I did I zoomed in so I could see the actual picture, not the icon, but it wasn't visible. The icon was, but when zoomed in enough it just wasn't there. An obvious fix to this would be to not let Mark 3 Force Fields push other Mark 3 Force Fields around, but I don't like this solution simply because it makes for a good strategy; kill the Force Field a little, bump it away, kill everything underneath and ignore the Force Field.

I really don't intend for force fields to be able to push each other, that can cause all sorts of bad problems.  Normally force fields cannot push any static objects, but since Mark III ones are mobile that causes an issue I had not thought of.  So I intend to make them not pushable.  Thanks for letting me know!

Bug:
Lighting Turrets (and possibly Electric Shuttles?) are able to fire underneath Mark 3 FF.

EDIT: I'm assuming this is a bug, and probably due to the logic that they use to attack... I would call this a bug because it defeats the entire purpose of a 70k crystal piece of machinery, and attacks *everything* underneath it.

EDIT: Well, this apparently isn't a bug, but that doesn't mean I like it <_<. Maybe make a giant sign on the Mark III FFs, saying that Infiltrators and Electric Shuttles/Turrets can fire underneath it?

Like Rev said, not a bug, but I'm starting to question this one.  This was originally a balancing tactic for force fields, but now that force fields shrink I think this is much less of an issue.  I am thinking that this makes electric shuttles, etc, a bit overpowered, and that maybe I should switch it back to these being blocked by force fields.  Thoughts?  Clearly Pandemic is with me on that.

With things like ships that can shoot through force fields, that is noted on the other ship instead of the force field, since there are so many ones that can do so.  But then again, that is important info so maybe I should at least put a note there.  Added to my list, and while I'm thinking about it I'm going to make an executive decision and re-nerf the electric shuttles and lightning turrets with regard to force fields.

Suggestion:
Mark 3 Force Fields be selected without having to Shift + Drag.

EDIT: Nevermind; the reason I had suggested this was because I use it on the attack, rather then defense. However, it makes a lot more sense that it needs to be Shift-clicked if you're defending... I can live with control grouping stuff :P.

Cool, that was basically the explanation I was going to give you.  If you hold Ctrl+Shift, it will let you select everything regardless of other filters by military/non-military types.  So that way you get the best of both worlds.  I just realized that was undocumented, so I've added that into the controls document for the next release.

Suggestion:
Maybe the AI does at a higher level, but they should use Mark 3 FF to attack, or at very least move it around to defend the most valuable stuff while defending.

They currently do not, but it's a cool idea.  Added to the Future DLC list.
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Offline Pandemic

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I really don't intend for force fields to be able to push each other, that can cause all sorts of bad problems.  Normally force fields cannot push any static objects, but since Mark III ones are mobile that causes an issue I had not thought of.  So I intend to make them not pushable.  Thanks for letting me know!
NOOOOOOOES!

Well, I suppose this is the best solution, but I think it's a decent strategy: kill the enemy forcefield just enough to bump it into nowhere, then ignore it. It'd also go well with the enemy AI moving the forcefields around, and would cause forcefields to be the center of attention; who can get the other down fast enough to be able to bully it around to where they want it?

Like Rev said, not a bug, but I'm starting to question this one.  This was originally a balancing tactic for force fields, but now that force fields shrink I think this is much less of an issue.  I am thinking that this makes electric shuttles, etc, a bit overpowered, and that maybe I should switch it back to these being blocked by force fields.  Thoughts?  Clearly Pandemic is with me on that.

With things like ships that can shoot through force fields, that is noted on the other ship instead of the force field, since there are so many ones that can do so.  But then again, that is important info so maybe I should at least put a note there.  Added to my list, and while I'm thinking about it I'm going to make an executive decision and re-nerf the electric shuttles and lightning turrets with regard to force fields.
I take it the last sentence means that they're not longer going to be able to shoot underneath it? If so, then I really don't need to respond ;D.

Cool, that was basically the explanation I was going to give you.  If you hold Ctrl+Shift, it will let you select everything regardless of other filters by military/non-military types.  So that way you get the best of both worlds.  I just realized that was undocumented, so I've added that into the controls document for the next release.
Ya, I was just thinking from an offensive perspective, rather then a defensive one. It makes much more sense now :P

They currently do not, but it's a cool idea.  Added to the Future DLC list.
Ya, I think it'd be a cool idea. Maybe make only the higher level AIs (7+, maybe 8?) use it, or maybe just add it to one of the existing AI types. Again, they should at least occassionally reevaluate the situation on a planet that's under attack, and relocate the forcefield as needed.


-Pandemic
http://www.di.fm/wma/trance.asx
"Freedom is the ability to say 2 plus 2 makes 4. If that is granted, all else follows."  -George Orwell, 1984

Offline Admiral

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Love the changelog!

Too bad you can't do !+N+7 since that would really be SHIFT+1+N+7... But the old C programmer in me likes the thought of the bang...

Offline x4000

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As a C# programmer, I'm also a big fan of bangs. :)  But yeah, I figured that the simpler inversion method was easier for people to actually hit.
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Offline x4000

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I really don't intend for force fields to be able to push each other, that can cause all sorts of bad problems.  Normally force fields cannot push any static objects, but since Mark III ones are mobile that causes an issue I had not thought of.  So I intend to make them not pushable.  Thanks for letting me know!
NOOOOOOOES!

Well, I suppose this is the best solution, but I think it's a decent strategy: kill the enemy forcefield just enough to bump it into nowhere, then ignore it. It'd also go well with the enemy AI moving the forcefields around, and would cause forcefields to be the center of attention; who can get the other down fast enough to be able to bully it around to where they want it?

Yeah, when they start getting into "pushing matches" that would get kind of ridiculous.  Hence my cutting that off now. :)

I take it the last sentence means that they're not longer going to be able to shoot underneath it? If so, then I really don't need to respond ;D.

Yeah, I made up my mind as I was typing. :)

Ya, I think it'd be a cool idea. Maybe make only the higher level AIs (7+, maybe 8?) use it, or maybe just add it to one of the existing AI types. Again, they should at least occassionally reevaluate the situation on a planet that's under attack, and relocate the forcefield as needed.

Mostly I want all of the AI tactics to be available from difficulty 7+, except some of the really crazy ones that are mentioned in the "Higher Difficulties Only" section of the wiki.  I'm thinking of maybe having moving force fields automatically drag along all the ships under them.  I think this would be really handy for both AI players and human ones.

If there's more for this topic, let's continue it here, if you don't mind:  http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,528.0.html
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Offline x4000

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