Author Topic: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).  (Read 5623 times)

Offline x4000

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Here's the latest prerelease:  http://www.arcengames.com/share/AIWar1008K.zip

That version is an upgrade from version 1.007, so you have to already have 1.007 (or greater) installed. Just unzip it into your game folder (usually C:\Program Files\Arcen Games\AI War\ unless you specified something else). Please make sure that your unzip process keeps the folder structure from the zip file, rather than just unpacking all of the files into the base target directory.

What's new since 1.008J:
(Cumulative release notes since 1.007 are attached at the bottom)

-------------------

-Wormhole Command Posts are now positioned on the wormhole they are guarding, rather than to the side.

-Non-mobile enemy ships are no longer displaced by mobile force fields' movement.

-The metal/crystal cost of Mark II Science Labs has been much reduced, and their shields have been reduced from 2500 to 1500.

-The range of all the tachyon beam emitter variants have been increased.

-Both the counter-shooter range and the attack range is now shown during ship placement mode for ships that have both (like Fortresses).

-The position of the attack ranges during ship placement mode was drawn slightly off.  This was only notable for very large ships, like Fortresses.  Fixed.

-Until now, the AI was not properly limiting its reinforcements based on the tech level of each reinforcement.  Now it is, which means that the hugely vast numbers of ships on the final planets are somewhat less likely to occur, making things a bit more equivalent for players when they get there (given equal AI progress).  On the other hand, the AI will now build Mark V ships on the home and core planet command posts during reinforcements, whereas before it only build Mark IV ships there.  The overall balance shift should be a bit in favor of the human players, which is good given the other behavior changes in this release in favor of the AI.

-Previously, when a constructor had a cross-planet gather point, resetting the gather point to the current planet would not work.  Fixed.

-The AI alert level is now shown in the intel summary of enemy planets.  This shows if the AI is likely to reinforce or not at a given planet, based on how aware it is of your presence.  The border color of the enemy ship icons and planet icons on the galaxy map will also turn crimson when the AI is on alert and prepared to reinforce at a given planet.
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Offline darke

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2009, 09:14:21 am »
Engineer II when removing mines teleports there, removes a few in range, then teleports back to it's "home", then bamfs back to have a go at a few more. Seems a bit of an odd movement pattern since I haven't noticed it doing a similar thing when it's repairing/building.

Warp portal AI reinforcements still happen at a portal if you've got non-combat "ships" such as science lab on it, but no damage dealing ships (a rather painful discovery). Unsure if this is intended, since it's somewhat weird and unintuitive. I can understand why it wouldn't necessary stop repopulating if I've got a stealthed ship there, but seems odd for a visible one.

Also this map generator seems to hate me. This time it started with a Tech IV/Ion Cannon world adjacent to mine.


Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2009, 09:45:59 am »
Engineer II when removing mines teleports there, removes a few in range, then teleports back to it's "home", then bamfs back to have a go at a few more. Seems a bit of an odd movement pattern since I haven't noticed it doing a similar thing when it's repairing/building.

Yeah, this is something I'm going to have to come back to later.  Otherwise I risk getting the movement/waypoints stuff all screwy again... :)

Warp portal AI reinforcements still happen at a portal if you've got non-combat "ships" such as science lab on it, but no damage dealing ships (a rather painful discovery). Unsure if this is intended, since it's somewhat weird and unintuitive. I can understand why it wouldn't necessary stop repopulating if I've got a stealthed ship there, but seems odd for a visible one.

Reinforcements to wormholes don't take into account what you have there at all yet.  That's just been coincidence, either that or your military ships were just finishing off the reinforcements too quickly for you to notice.  Basically, reinforcements won't stop coming there until you kill the command station.

Also this map generator seems to hate me. This time it started with a Tech IV/Ion Cannon world adjacent to mine.

It's not uncommon to have one of those next to your home planet.  What's uncommon is having four next to you. :)  The higher the difficulty you play on, the more likely you are to have high-level planets next to or near your home planet (since there are more overall in the map).  Having even two next to you is not game-ending, it's just a matter of if you're completely surrounded.  It will make wormhole defense on your home planet an ongoing thing for the campaign duration, though, I imagine...
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Offline darke

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2009, 11:06:56 am »
Warp portal AI reinforcements still happen at a portal if you've got non-combat "ships" such as science lab on it, but no damage dealing ships (a rather painful discovery). Unsure if this is intended, since it's somewhat weird and unintuitive. I can understand why it wouldn't necessary stop repopulating if I've got a stealthed ship there, but seems odd for a visible one.

Reinforcements to wormholes don't take into account what you have there at all yet.  That's just been coincidence, either that or your military ships were just finishing off the reinforcements too quickly for you to notice.  Basically, reinforcements won't stop coming there until you kill the command station.

Ahh, that makes sense. There's so much going on it's hard to keep track of, well, pretty much everything at times. :)

Also this map generator seems to hate me. This time it started with a Tech IV/Ion Cannon world adjacent to mine.

It's not uncommon to have one of those next to your home planet.  What's uncommon is having four next to you. :)  The higher the difficulty you play on, the more likely you are to have high-level planets next to or near your home planet (since there are more overall in the map).  Having even two next to you is not game-ending, it's just a matter of if you're completely surrounded.  It will make wormhole defense on your home planet an ongoing thing for the campaign duration, though, I imagine...

Can't say I've found home-planet wormhole defense much of a challenge so far. Worst I've had happen is basically forgetting to put more then a single tractor turret around a wormhole then suddenly an hour and a half gametime later I'm wondering where my space dock has gone to on my home planet. :) The continual stream of ships coming out of it took out the enemies fine as they wandered off to a staging point on another world, but not before the enemies took down the dock.

Also the Hard AI that drops a wormhole in your starting base seems a bit of a pushover too. The ships it tosses though seem a bit more varied then the usual ones wandering through, but it doesn't feel like a "hard" AI at all. Maybe more Easy/Medium. But my setup is a bit abnormal on that hole, since I started this map with munitions boosters, and have one on each set of turrets I've got guarding it, so they're doing twice as much damage as normal to things coming through. :)

Offline darke

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2009, 11:10:59 am »
Oh, and before I forget, the "safe" wormhole pathing does not take into account there being thirty-thousand permanent mines at one end of a wormhole between two worlds that you have cleared and claimed. :)

Thankfully I noticed before I directed my supply chain through there, otherwise there would have been a lot of ships disintegrated before I noticed that one. :)

Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 11:48:31 am »
Ahh, that makes sense. There's so much going on it's hard to keep track of, well, pretty much everything at times. :)

Yep, hopefully that's just the case for you folks who are downloading and running all the prereleases and making suggestions.  I imagine the experience is a lot more consistent for those who just download the weekly releases (the latest of which is now out, by the way).

Can't say I've found home-planet wormhole defense much of a challenge so far. Worst I've had happen is basically forgetting to put more then a single tractor turret around a wormhole then suddenly an hour and a half gametime later I'm wondering where my space dock has gone to on my home planet. :) The continual stream of ships coming out of it took out the enemies fine as they wandered off to a staging point on another world, but not before the enemies took down the dock.

Well, we'll see how you feel when I make the special forces guys come through in bunches instead of in waves.  And depending on the AI type (such as with Special Forces Captains), even just that trickle can be murderous.  If you've done your gate-raids, though, the wormhole defense shouldn't be too bad in any case.

Also the Hard AI that drops a wormhole in your starting base seems a bit of a pushover too. The ships it tosses though seem a bit more varied then the usual ones wandering through, but it doesn't feel like a "hard" AI at all. Maybe more Easy/Medium. But my setup is a bit abnormal on that hole, since I started this map with munitions boosters, and have one on each set of turrets I've got guarding it, so they're doing twice as much damage as normal to things coming through. :)

Guys don't trickle out of that, instead it always lets the AI warp in raids to your home planet.  In other words, no matter how many gate-raids you do to adjacent planets, your home planet will always be vulnerable.  This can make the late-game VERY much harder, since normally you would have protected your home planet by then.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2009, 11:49:55 am »
Oh, and before I forget, the "safe" wormhole pathing does not take into account there being thirty-thousand permanent mines at one end of a wormhole between two worlds that you have cleared and claimed. :)

Thankfully I noticed before I directed my supply chain through there, otherwise there would have been a lot of ships disintegrated before I noticed that one. :)

Ooh, yeah, that's a rough one.  Nope, the pathing doesn't (and won't ever) take that into account.  However, Blam Stokel had an excellent suggestion about basically being able to mark a wormhole as "don't use this," and when that's out you can just mark it yourself and your pathing will then respond accordingly.  I imagine that will help with permamines. :)
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Offline darke

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2009, 11:56:36 am »
Ahh, that makes sense. There's so much going on it's hard to keep track of, well, pretty much everything at times. :)

Yep, hopefully that's just the case for you folks who are downloading and running all the prereleases and making suggestions.  I imagine the experience is a lot more consistent for those who just download the weekly releases (the latest of which is now out, by the way).

Yeah, it's a little easier to work out what's going on when I'm not juggling working out what's changed; whether the way something is working is how it's supposed to or not and whether I should mention it; along with actually trying to play the game. :)

Can't say I've found home-planet wormhole defense much of a challenge so far. Worst I've had happen is basically forgetting to put more then a single tractor turret around a wormhole then suddenly an hour and a half gametime later I'm wondering where my space dock has gone to on my home planet. :) The continual stream of ships coming out of it took out the enemies fine as they wandered off to a staging point on another world, but not before the enemies took down the dock.

Well, we'll see how you feel when I make the special forces guys come through in bunches instead of in waves.  And depending on the AI type (such as with Special Forces Captains), even just that trickle can be murderous.  If you've done your gate-raids, though, the wormhole defense shouldn't be too bad in any case.

I have never been particularly thorough with my gate-raids, usually just raid-for-knowledge, and if the gate happens to not be underneath an annoying force field, I knock it out. So I usually get about 70% or 80% of them. On the other hand, it does mean there's only a handful of wormholes I have to worry about.

Also the Hard AI that drops a wormhole in your starting base seems a bit of a pushover too. The ships it tosses though seem a bit more varied then the usual ones wandering through, but it doesn't feel like a "hard" AI at all. Maybe more Easy/Medium. But my setup is a bit abnormal on that hole, since I started this map with munitions boosters, and have one on each set of turrets I've got guarding it, so they're doing twice as much damage as normal to things coming through. :)

Guys don't trickle out of that, instead it always lets the AI warp in raids to your home planet.  In other words, no matter how many gate-raids you do to adjacent planets, your home planet will always be vulnerable.  This can make the late-game VERY much harder, since normally you would have protected your home planet by then.

Ah, I haven't gotten to the end game with this one yet, still probably about half way there (10 or so planets out of 60 I think), and about 75% of the map explored, so most of my "work" is done. I just need to systematically go through clearing out the planets on the way to the 3rd adv lab and 1st adv factory I've encountered, then head in the other direction where the Tech V planets have to be hiding since they're the only ones I haven't mapped.

Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 12:03:56 pm »
Yeah, it's a little easier to work out what's going on when I'm not juggling working out what's changed; whether the way something is working is how it's supposed to or not and whether I should mention it; along with actually trying to play the game. :)

Yeah, I figured. :)

I have never been particularly thorough with my gate-raids, usually just raid-for-knowledge, and if the gate happens to not be underneath an annoying force field, I knock it out. So I usually get about 70% or 80% of them. On the other hand, it does mean there's only a handful of wormholes I have to worry about.

That's the key, is having just a few wormholes to worry about.  In some four-player games, by six hours in we've had 15+ hostile wormholes.  Needless to say, we lost a lot of planets in the back-and forth of all that.  Needless to say, we didn't have the best-planned expansion in that one.

Ah, I haven't gotten to the end game with this one yet, still probably about half way there (10 or so planets out of 60 I think), and about 75% of the map explored, so most of my "work" is done. I just need to systematically go through clearing out the planets on the way to the 3rd adv lab and 1st adv factory I've encountered, then head in the other direction where the Tech V planets have to be hiding since they're the only ones I haven't mapped.

Ah, gotcha.  Yeah, I marked this one as a HARDER AI type because I didn't want anyone new to the game to encounter this type, think everything is going great, and then get slammed at the end or something.  The AI Progress goes up by 100 when you kill the first AI Home Planet, so then suddenly things are even more dicey, and the AI still has a direct path to your homeworld...
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Offline darke

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 12:22:59 pm »

Ah, I haven't gotten to the end game with this one yet, still probably about half way there (10 or so planets out of 60 I think), and about 75% of the map explored, so most of my "work" is done. I just need to systematically go through clearing out the planets on the way to the 3rd adv lab and 1st adv factory I've encountered, then head in the other direction where the Tech V planets have to be hiding since they're the only ones I haven't mapped.

Ah, gotcha.  Yeah, I marked this one as a HARDER AI type because I didn't want anyone new to the game to encounter this type, think everything is going great, and then get slammed at the end or something.  The AI Progress goes up by 100 when you kill the first AI Home Planet, so then suddenly things are even more dicey, and the AI still has a direct path to your homeworld...

Ah, I see what you mean. Normally I find if I crush one AI, I very quickly steamroll the second one as well. I guess that is the benefit of playing with parasites a lot (I think almost all game I've done to completion have been with parasites as my starting ship), you don't loose so much momentum because you're continually acquiring some ships back with every combat; so you're slowed down less by general attrition problems.

Offline x4000

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Re: Prerelease 1.008K (AI Alert Levels and Reinforcement Balancing).
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 12:31:46 pm »
Ah, I see what you mean. Normally I find if I crush one AI, I very quickly steamroll the second one as well. I guess that is the benefit of playing with parasites a lot (I think almost all game I've done to completion have been with parasites as my starting ship), you don't loose so much momentum because you're continually acquiring some ships back with every combat; so you're slowed down less by general attrition problems.

Quite so.  Hopefully with the cost increases for parasites, that won't be quite so much more effective than the other potential starting ships.
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