Poll

Which basic human unlocks need a buff or a k cost decrease?

Fleetship IIIs
13 (4.6%)
Raid starships
24 (8.5%)
Enclave starships
26 (9.2%)
Station upgrades
23 (8.1%)
<oops>
8 (2.8%)
Laser Turrets
9 (3.2%)
Lightning Turrets
14 (4.9%)
Flak Turrets
17 (6%)
Missile Turrets
5 (1.8%)
MLRS Turrets
10 (3.5%)
Spider Turrets
5 (1.8%)
Tractor Turrets
4 (1.4%)
Turrets in general
23 (8.1%)
Warp Jammer
6 (2.1%)
Zenith Space Time Manipulator
13 (4.6%)
Scout Starships
13 (4.6%)
Mini Fort
11 (3.9%)
Mobile Repair Station
20 (7%)
Transport IIs
25 (8.8%)
Engineer IIIs
15 (5.3%)
None of the Above
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: Poll: which basic human unlocks need a buff?  (Read 7773 times)

Offline Faulty Logic

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Poll: which basic human unlocks need a buff?
« on: April 15, 2013, 06:36:01 PM »
Because Keith can never resist a poll...

Voting for a specific turret means a buff relative to other turrets. Turrets in general means a buff to  all turrets.

If I've missed a nomination, I will attempt to add it if notified.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 06:05:18 AM by Faulty Logic »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2013, 06:40:40 PM »
I would suggest a "None of the above" option, though I doubt it will get much use (more useful in nerf polls, I suppose).
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Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2013, 06:49:41 PM »
Done.
If warheads can't solve it, use more warheads.

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2013, 06:56:35 PM »
OK, who voted for <oops>?
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2013, 06:59:21 PM »
I voted raid starships (mostly due to guard posts, and as buffing the human versions would imply buffing the AI versions if they are kept in "1/2 HP sync", I would rather see them get a K cost decrease), flak turrets (for reasons mentioned in my turrets post), and MRLS turrets (due to almost just as bad vs. bonus stats).

I actually think that the other turrets are in a decent state. Sure, some of them could have their K costs looked at, but not severely enough IMO to deserve my vote for the "turrets in general" option.

Offline Toranth

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2013, 07:11:38 PM »
OK, who voted for <oops>?
Yeah, I don't really think "Oops" needs a buff.  It's already dangerous enough as it is - Many lost games are caused by the human using an "Oops".
Curiously enough, I can't think I've ever seen the AI use an "Oops", though... bug?

Offline Hearteater

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 07:21:35 PM »
Mark III Fleetship - As mentioned in another thread, their K cost is prohibitive.  Compared to Starships, they require a much higher constant economic drain due to attrition.  They also take more user micro to get replacements back in position.

Raid Starships - Besides the wacky K costs, they really need utility when upgraded rather than combat power.  Otherwise nothing short of an absurd K-cost will make them attractive.

Station Upgrades - Aside from Military III (purely on a choke world) these need help.  It would be much better to have much lower caps.  Single cap for Mark III, 2-4 for Mark II, and give them some real punch.

Turrets in General - These are almost always a bad buy because they at best cancel out the AIP from expansion on the defensive side of things, but you still need to deal with reinforcements.  So until you hit the reinforcement cap, these just aren't super great.  I'm half tempted to say nerf all turrets, but bring down their upgrade costs so we can effectively upgrade them to get the same level of defense.  Currently in 9/9, Mark Is are fine for the entire game.  I'd even say go as far as add Mark IV turrets.

Engineer III - Maybe K is too high, but the biggest change I want to see is make them immune to reclamation.  It is far to easy to Reclaim AI Engineer IIIs so you never need to unlock them.  Find a Mark IV world, kill everything except the command station, and far the Engineer IIIs that spawn there with Leech Starships.

Zenith Space Time Manipulator I've never used, so I can't comment on.

Offline Vyndicu

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2013, 08:07:12 PM »
I picked enclave starship because OTHER than having level 4 production without an advanced factory; encalve starship are not very useful. Even the drone are kind of weak compare to normal bonus "neinzul" drone. I realize that they are supposed to be hybrid of neinzul and human tech. The problem is they have very low durable and don't really contribute much in way of firepower for lot of invest. (Unlocking turrets + higher mark enclave etc...)

The other thing that I think need an adjust but not a necessary buff. Mini-fort they are useful as stopgap plug for leaking from chokehold or on a lattice map where defense is crucial everywhere.  So I think they are in a good place right now. Maybe mk2-3 mini-fort version for lattice map play style?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 08:20:13 PM by Vyndicu »

Offline Zeyurn

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2013, 08:16:40 PM »
My opinions are always skewed to many people because I play multiplayer and don't skimp on the AI progress but I'll just leave this as more of a multiplayer bent.

1)  Turrets in general (except HBC turrets and gravity turrets):  I still have to build these in 5-10+ to even have anything happen.  The K costs are very high and while in certain situations useful for unlocks of other things, the main point of me still getting them is just as HP sponges so the actually good defenses (modular forts, regular forts) can do their thing.  I would rather see MK4 turrets for everything (a turret IV unlocker maybe?), a cheaper upgrade path, and if necessary rebalance the suckers but keep in mind that for the K cost they are now I really expect a lot more than I get because turrets beyond gravity and HBC are basically pointless in a 30000 ship invasion force late game (~260 AIP?) when both AIs at level 10/10 send every wave at one planet (EDIT:  my notes remind me that lightning still are okay given their AOE potential, but in 3 player multiplayer really anything with AoE still makes out okay).  On lower difficulties they do a lot better and especially at lower AIP, but I can repel a much larger wave with fleet ships and kiting than I could ever hope to with turrets.  (oddball suggestion:  mobile turrets that just can't warp like the force fields/forts?)

2)  Scout Starships:  Please just make a toggle for 'select scout starships along with fleet'.  I can never get support ships to come with me easily and it seems like this would be fixed with an easy toggle.  I don't know that they're bad at what they do but they're so bothersome I can never manage to care and have never seemed to need them.  Minor quibble but I voted anyway :)

3)  Raid Starships:  The huge buff to AI guardposts made my wife, the person whose first unlock was always Raid Starship 2/3, decide they weren't worth it.  Neinzul Champions in a game where Champions exist are like a raid starship on steroids to the point where in shadows games there's seriously no need for raid starships.  My wife and I destroyed a homeworld except for the final core station and the shields with just 2 neinzul champions although we each died about 30 times.  I don't know if this is really so easily fixable but I feel like they've been supplanted with the last expansion if we assume people like to play with Champions on more consistently than they like to do a Fallen Spire campaign mode.  Without champions on the 7.6 test game these were allowed to be built again and do better but certainly at the highest difficulties I wouldn't much bother anymore.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 08:18:51 PM by Zeyurn »

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2013, 08:40:48 PM »
Quote
Please just make a toggle for 'select scout starships along with fleet'.
It's already there. Click the controls tab, then click "brave scout starships."
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Offline Bognor

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2013, 08:43:31 PM »
2)  Scout Starships:  Please just make a toggle for 'select scout starships along with fleet'.
It's already there, under the Galaxy-wide controls.  Look for "Brave Scout Starships".
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Offline Zeyurn

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Re: Which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2013, 09:27:45 PM »
Learn something every day, thanks :)  For some reason I'd thought this was more the Evade behavior stuff, I am happy to be corrected!

Offline Zeyi

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Re: Poll: which basic human unlocks needs a buff?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 05:14:07 AM »
Raids, Transport II, Engie III

Maybe Enclaves.

I think everything else is relatively fine.

Offline rickynumber24

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Re: Poll: which basic human unlocks need a buff?
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, 12:23:56 PM »
The big problem I have with Engineer IIIs and Mk. III triangle ships in particular is actually Leech Starships and Parasites.  Why research and build them when you can go knock over a Mk. III world and steal them?  I haven't gotten the engineers yet, in my latest game, but the last time I played a parasite-heavy game that's all I needed... and in my current game, I've definitely got most of a cap of triangle ships (along with everything else a Zenith Descendant will give you) out of mercenary parasites and 3 caps of leech starships.

Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Poll: which basic human unlocks need a buff?
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2013, 12:25:10 PM »
I do unlock Engi IIIs but that's because I usually assign my whole cap of IIs to my primary production site (usually the homeworld) and IIIs are used for FacIVs or Fabs.

MkIII fleetships seem fine to me, after all that unlock doubles your cap strength even before you add the FacIV.