Poll: Which AI modifiers/plots do you use?

[Hearteater]

Schizo waves would be more interesting if they only picked 2 or 3 ship types to make the wave.  That would make any two non-mono waves different, and create some much nastier combos when the AI has stuff like Munitions, Shield Bearer and such.

[Mánagarmr]

Schizo waves would be more interesting if they only picked 2 or 3 ship types to make the wave.  That would make any two non-mono waves different, and create some much nastier combos when the AI has stuff like Munitions, Shield Bearer and such.

You could run Schizo Waves with a Support Corps AI?

[Hearteater]

It kind of would make each AI have a support-ish feel.  But Support AI throws in stuff like Decoys, so it isn't quite the same.  Plus it doesn't have waves of its own.

[KDR_11k]

Hm, is it feasible to change that?

I think we'd end up with all bomber waves all the time with a side of bombers.

Depends, I think it should take mobile forces into account and bombers may not be the best ship for those. Or it may decide "I can't stand up directly to those forces, I'll go for raider types" or "too many fortifications, better take a beachhead".

[Wanderer]

"too many fortifications, better take a beachhead".

Words I never want to hear unless I've chosen to turn that option on... Gah.  Hate those things.

[KDR_11k]

I usually have my turret caps spread all over the galaxy with no planet strong enough to withstand a wave without mobile support so the thought of leaving it all to the turrets never occurs to me.

[TechSY730]

Schizo waves would be more interesting if they only picked 2 or 3 ship types to make the wave.  That would make any two non-mono waves different, and create some much nastier combos when the AI has stuff like Munitions, Shield Bearer and such.

This is actually a really nice idea. But rather than 2 or 3 ship types, how about 2 or 3 ship "roles"?

I hope you don't mind if I took that modified form of this idea and appended it to the mantis feature post I linked earlier. (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=7211#c28857)

[Hearteater]

I don't know that I'd go to roles.  Part of the danger that limited ship types can present in a wave is you not having a counter for one of them.  It probably wouldn't matter for a lot of AI Types, but some that have a lot of free ship types unlocked would feel pretty similar to the current Schizo, ironically making only harder AI Types easier.

[Draco18s]

I don't know that I'd go to roles.  Part of the danger that limited ship types can present in a wave is you not having a counter for one of them.  It probably wouldn't matter for a lot of AI Types, but some that have a lot of free ship types unlocked would feel pretty similar to the current Schizo, ironically making only harder AI Types easier.

This doesn't make sense.

If the AI is limited to two ship TYPES, it throws....

Z Chameleons
Frigates

Odds of me not having something that counters the whole wave: very very low (I need exactly two units: fighter and frigate)

If the AI is limited to two ship ROLES, it throws....

Bombers (sends bombers and z chameleons)
Artillery (sends frigates and grenade launcher)

Odds of my not having something that counters the whole wave: much higher.  Sure, the two artillery units both have the same armor type, but I wouldn't be able to send my fighters in to attack the bombers without them getting beat up by the frigates and grenadiers.  But I wouldn't be able to send in my AOE immune frigates to engage the grenadiers because of the bombers.

[Hearteater]

Do you think Schizo waves are easier or harder than mono waves?  If you think they are harder, then I'm not sure what more I can say to convince you otherwise.  If you think they are easier, then you should realize using roles over types pushes a wave more towards the current, easier, schizo waves, and worse, it does so mainly for the harder AI Types.  Of course, this means you'll say you don't think Schizo waves are either easier or harder.

[Draco18s]

Do you think Schizo waves are easier or harder than mono waves?  If you think they are harder, then I'm not sure what more I can say to convince you otherwise.  If you think they are easier, then you should realize using roles over types pushes a wave more towards the current, easier, schizo waves, and worse, it does so mainly for the harder AI Types.  Of course, this means you'll say you don't think Schizo waves are either easier or harder.

Schizo waves aren't harder, I never said they were.

And if they're easier, then making the change to roles instead of types...make them easier!?  That's the part I don't understand.

[KDR_11k]

I don't know that I'd go to roles.  Part of the danger that limited ship types can present in a wave is you not having a counter for one of them.  It probably wouldn't matter for a lot of AI Types, but some that have a lot of free ship types unlocked would feel pretty similar to the current Schizo, ironically making only harder AI Types easier.

Don't the basic ships cover all hull types? Sure, some may be rather difficult to exploit (e.g. hitting railclusters with fighters) but IIRC you have bonuses against everything between the three triangle ships.

[TechSY730]

Do you think Schizo waves are easier or harder than mono waves?  If you think they are harder, then I'm not sure what more I can say to convince you otherwise.  If you think they are easier, then you should realize using roles over types pushes a wave more towards the current, easier, schizo waves, and worse, it does so mainly for the harder AI Types.  Of course, this means you'll say you don't think Schizo waves are either easier or harder.

Depends if you mean average difficulty, min difficulty, or max difficulty.

Average difficulty for schizos is very slightly higher than mono waves (as you can no longer minimize losses by sending in one counter).

Min difficulty for schizos is higher than min difficulty for mono waves (imagine the "terror" of a shield bearer mono wave.  ) In fact, the min difficulty for a schizo wave is only a little below average difficulty for schizo waves.

Max, practical (as in, restricting to loadouts you can expect to see in any sort of humanly possible playtimes) difficulty for schizos is much lower than max difficulty for mono waves (due to it being far less likely that the AI will spam ships built for offensive, "take out the planet" actions, like they can and will do with mono waves). This is because the max, practical difficulty for schizo wave is only little bit higher than its average difficulty, where as the difference between the average and max difficulty mono waves is quite large.

Max difficulty for schizo waves, if you include those extremely rare chances of getting certain loadouts (I mean rare like like 1/2^50 rare), are actually HIGHER than max difficulty for mono-waves. (Think munitions boosters, shield bearers, zombards, bombers, and maybe something like a Spire railcluster, plus a Spire starship and/or a plasma seige starship to deal with any grav turrets and a raid starship (self explanatory), in proper ratios for the support style ships to properly support the offensive ships, but still have enough offensive ships to be threatening. Very, very rare, but possible, and will be a nightmare if you do face a good sized wave like this)

EDIT: This is one of the reasons why I suggested that the AI would sometimes use role based ship selections, so it would actually try to aim for things like this, so they happen more often than once every lifetime. It could try to build a loadout of support + anti-structure + long-range. Or it could try other clever "role mixes" that could prove to be very scary (tractor + melee, tractor + support, cloakers + high-capped ships, long-range + support + melee, etc. All sorts of fun possibilities.)

[TechSY730]

I don't know that I'd go to roles.  Part of the danger that limited ship types can present in a wave is you not having a counter for one of them.  It probably wouldn't matter for a lot of AI Types, but some that have a lot of free ship types unlocked would feel pretty similar to the current Schizo, ironically making only harder AI Types easier.

Don't the basic ships cover all hull types? Sure, some may be rather difficult to exploit (e.g. hitting railclusters with fighters) but IIRC you have bonuses against everything between the three triangle ships.

I think there is one hull type that isn't covered, scout hull type.

But given how freaking rare it is for the AI to use something with that hull type, you can pretty much ignore it.

[Hearteater]

Do you think Schizo waves are easier or harder than mono waves?  If you think they are harder, then I'm not sure what more I can say to convince you otherwise.  If you think they are easier, then you should realize using roles over types pushes a wave more towards the current, easier, schizo waves, and worse, it does so mainly for the harder AI Types.  Of course, this means you'll say you don't think Schizo waves are either easier or harder.

Schizo waves aren't harder, I never said they were.

And if they're easier, then making the change to roles instead of types...make them easier!?  That's the part I don't understand.

No, I'm not saying roles would make them easier than Schizo.  I'm saying using roles dilutes 2-3 selections to something that is almost the same difficulty as Schizo.  And worse, this is MORE true for AI Types that have a lot of ship types, like the Everything AI.  So, although using roles would make Schizo more challenging than now, it would be less effective than just using ship types and it would be much less effective for hard AI types.