Poll: What should be done with special forces?

[Faulty Logic]

I also can't increase the number of votes per person after a change. This is starting to bug me. I think the poll author should be able to edit their own poll. Sorry to bother you.

SMF?

[keith.lamothe]

I also can't increase the number of votes per person after a change.

Changed to 20, now.

This is starting to bug me. I think the poll author should be able to edit their own poll.

I agree, but the software doesn't care

SMF?

See the link at the bottom: http://www.simplemachines.org/

[keith.lamothe]

I scoured the permissions page but the only not-yet-granted permission I could find related to a user's own polls was "remove poll".  That's granted now, dunno if the other stuff was hiding under it

[Martyn van Buren]

Hey just for a baseline what is the current behavior of special forces?  My belief (is this right) is that they fly from SF guard post to SF guard post like an FRD redirector patrol.  I'm not clear on what their behavior is on encountering a player world in the way --- do they wait to build up more forces at all currently?  If so, their attack threshhold is not nearly as high as threat ships', right?

[Hearteater]

I believe all they do if travel between SF posts, but are not considered active until they are awakened by the player in the manner of normal AI ships sitting at a Guard Post.  I don't believe even reaching the worm hole into a player system wakes them up, although they may opt not to enter the player system if the Firepower in that system is too high.  In effect, they become almost like threat but don't show up in the Threat count.  Once they decide to enter the player system they'll activate and become threat if they survive and escape.  Once a SF ship activates, I don't believe it is a SF ship anymore, but I could be mistaken.

[Diazo]

As I understand it, when a ship is assigned to a regular guard post in guard mode it sits at the guard post waiting for the player to attack, or to trigger the system overwhelmed flag and is freed onto threat at either of those points.

When a special forces ship is in 'guard' mode it patrols between special forces guard posts (I believe they can do so across systems). The triggers for being turned into threat are the same however, a player ship gets close enough or the system gets the 'system overwhelmed' flag and all special forces ships in the system get turned into threat at that point.

What is supposed to be the special forces 'mechanic' is that when their destination is a special forces guard post on the other side of the players systems, the special forces ships can enter human worlds without warning.

Except that the way the Threat mechanic has evolved means that it does exactly the same thing, that of entering player's systems without warning. Except Threat does it in such greater numbers that the special forces ships don't even get noticed.

Hence the discussion on how to make Special Forces ships 'special' again.

D.

[Faulty Logic]

I scoured the permissions page but the only not-yet-granted permission I could find related to a user's own polls was "remove poll".  That's granted now, dunno if the other stuff was hiding under it

Unfortunately, I still can't change stuff like "allow vote editing" or "number of votes per person." Thanks for trying, though.

[Ozymandiaz]

One thing I think might need some change is to make the special forces command posts to be more beefy. Now they are rather push over tbh. Used to be I had to dedicate missile cruisers to them since I would loose my ships if I just sent them randomly into it. Or send a bigger fleet But now I can easily handle them without much thought.

Maybe something modular about them too? Same basic model and unit, but a few modules randomly to make them a bit different every time?

As I see special forces, they are supposed to be somewhat "separate" to the main AI. And having some more beefy command posts that spawn more/better units, and then they can roam between them (or do something in addition) would be good. Then you might actually consider raiding a close by special forces guard posts, while leaving the rest of the planet more or less intact.

I am not a fan of making them 'wave like' like the main AI force, CPA and Exos since that we already have. I like them working more in the background, and every now and then come into your territory. More fun imo to expand on that difference rather than making them more similar

[Mánagarmr]

Allow them to launch Special Forces waves
When SFSs are at cap, I'd like to see them sometimes group up 10-20% of their number, go to the biggest pile of threat, recruit that threat, and then launch a wave against the weakest human system.  I don't mind a warning that "Special Forces Ships appear to be up to something" and even a timed countdown.  The wave could physically move against the system in question, or probably more amusing (and also giving a better reason for a wave countdown) just have it pick up the SFSs and the threat selected and drop them in just like a normal wave.

This sounds intriguing.

[keith.lamothe]

Crossposting from the (still in progress) release notes, since they're basically a response to this thread:

* AI Special Forces:
** Now get periodic extra spawns (in addition to the usual trickle from reinforcements) if under a "special forces population cap" determined by difficulty, AIP, etc.
*** If you're curious about the math, etc, turn on Advanced Logging and check SpecialForcesLogicLog.txt in your RuntimeData directory after the game has run for a bit.  There's some minor spoilers in there about what ships each AI has, but nothing you probably won't find out looking at a few AI planets anyway.
** Will now rally to defend an AI planet that is under significant attack and at least mildly important (AI Homeworld, core world, or a planet with a CSG, ARS, Advanced Factory, Super Terminal, or Broken Golem on it, giving priority to HWs/core-worlds).
*** Note that once a special forces ship encounters the enemy it loses the special forces flag and acts like a normal threat ship from there on.
** When not rallying to defend a planet, will select a staging planet about 3 hops deep into AI territory and rally there until an eligible AI planet is attacked.
** To prevent a player's first attack from running into several hundred AI ships out for blood, as entertaining as it was during testing, special forces ships are no longer seeded during the initial map seeding.

[TechSY730]

Crossposting from the (still in progress) release notes, since they're basically a response to this thread:

* AI Special Forces:
** Now get periodic extra spawns (in addition to the usual trickle from reinforcements) if under a "special forces population cap" determined by difficulty, AIP, etc.
*** If you're curious about the math, etc, turn on Advanced Logging and check SpecialForcesLogicLog.txt in your RuntimeData directory after the game has run for a bit.  There's some minor spoilers in there about what ships each AI has, but nothing you probably won't find out looking at a few AI planets anyway.
** Will now rally to defend an AI planet that is under significant attack and at least mildly important (AI Homeworld, core world, or a planet with a CSG, ARS, Advanced Factory, Super Terminal, or Broken Golem on it, giving priority to HWs/core-worlds).
*** Note that once a special forces ship encounters the enemy it loses the special forces flag and acts like a normal threat ship from there on.
** When not rallying to defend a planet, will select a staging planet about 3 hops deep into AI territory and rally there until an eligible AI planet is attacked.
** To prevent a player's first attack from running into several hundred AI ships out for blood, as entertaining as it was during testing, special forces ships are no longer seeded during the initial map seeding.

Does this mean the Special forces will no longer try to attack hostile planets? Or did they never try to in the first place, and all attacks were accidental?

[Mánagarmr]

Yes, they only actively attacked a human planet if it was along their patrol route, and then they'd stop being Special Forces the instant they went through the wormhole and became free threat.

[Wingflier]

I'm confused, does this finally give you a reason to destroy the Special Guard Posts on your own planets? Or are they still a minor annoyance?

[keith.lamothe]

I'm confused, does this finally give you a reason to destroy the Special Guard Posts on your own planets? Or are they still a minor annoyance?

It does if you don't want enemy ships to spawn on your planet.

[Wingflier]

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying