Poll: Should AI homeworlds be buffed? If so, How?

[TechSY730]

One of the things I voted for was more brutal picks, but I would like to mention that I would prefer to see new types of brutal picks implemented along side this.

[keith.lamothe]

What about a sort of special forces post specifically for homeworld defense? Or maybe not guard post as much as barracks.. The idea being, these barracks would sit with a bunch of mk5 units in them until the homeworlds get attacked, at which point they start popping and sending units to *defend* the homeworld.

If nothing else, it would employ similar mechanics as the core shield generators and possibly require people to look for them and destroy them individually before assaulting the homeworlds.. which may be a good thing?

No more "you are required to look for and destroy X before assaulting homeworlds" stuff is going in.  But yea, some stuff that, if not killed, would make it far more... interesting, that's a possibility

[Lancefighter]

You mean core shield generators were not the most awesome idea ever? *shocked*

[Hearteater]

I enjoy CSGs very much.  Without CSGs you are playing Checkers, with them you are playing Chess.  Playing without CSGs and using Spirecraft is Tic-Tac-Toe.  But I also agree they are enough "must-be-killed-before-homeworld" for them game.

[Astilious]

Personally I find end game a grind as is, I would hate to see the HWs get (for example) extra core guard posts. For me any situation in which the risk of losing is low tends to feel that way, currently once you knock out CRE and CPA posts the HW assault is very unlikely to kill you.

So what I don't want is something that makes it harder to kill the AI but doesn't actually kill you. Currently what I like on AI HW is the CRE and CPA posts - these not only make the attack harder but can kill you if not respected (the Neinzul post does this to a lesser extent). I feel the entire HW should be like this.

This in mind the kind of mechanics I'd like to see would be (just to give an idea, not necessarily the best ways to go about it):
- Rapid AIP when there is anything other than a scout on a HW (1 per min or more).
- Ships on HW always cause deep strike.
- Remove AI Eye from the 'brutal pick' list (so more CRE and CPA, less grindy AI HW assualt).
- Extra brutal pick (voted).
- New brutal guard post that sends waves without warp gate restrictions (standard mark, not mark IV).
- New brutal guard post that sends waves of guardians, especially EMP (maybe just normal waves with EMP guardians?).
- This one is nasty: must kill all other posts before you can damage brutal posts. Perhaps just a core guard post that gives all other posts invulnerability as a subtler alternative.

As others have said when you hit the AI HW the AI should realize you need to be take seriously and start to throw its full forces at you. Game wise it might make finishing things off the most dangerous part. Seeing as AI War games are supposed (by my understanding) to somewhat resemble the difficulty ramp up of a typical RTS single player campaign this seems appropriate.

In summary I would buff the HW by making them kill the player, not just delay them.

On warheads: I say embrace them as THE way to survive end game on high diff. AIP no longer matters so you can go warhead mad: I say give people something to go warhead mad on.

[Faulty Logic]

Added new options.

I like the idea that the brutal posts must die last.
The others I personally oppose.

About CSGs: I never liked them. They seem arbitrary, and like they were the wrong way to approach the "people attacking the HW too soon" problem. Making the HWs nasty enough so that you need those fabricators and ARSs, and the advanced factory is the goal of the poll.

I have no problem with warheads becoming necessary late-game on 9+.

Editing your vote will be locked for a while again, sorry.

[chemical_art]

Didn't like CSG's because they are arbitary.

If for example level of CSG' provided 20% damage immunity rather then the all or nothing approach, then I would support it more. I'd get 3 CSG's and be to assault the HW, but I would only attack it with 60% dps against the posts, which would make it hardier but not all or nothing.

[Astilious]

This in mind the kind of mechanics I'd like to see would be (just to give an idea, not necessarily the best ways to go about it):

Didn't really mean for all those to get put on the poll, was just trying to clarify the kind of thing I meant. Not that it does any harm.

I would say of them my favorite is counter post style wave sending brutal post as it forces you to revise your strategy to deal with it (which is what I like most in the game). The main problem with the "must kill non brutal posts first" idea is that it would be hard to balance for lower diffs (short just not having it happen).

If for example level of CSG' provided 20% damage immunity rather then the all or nothing approach, then I would support it more. I'd get 3 CSG's and be to assault the HW, but I would only attack it with 60% dps against the posts, which would make it hardier but not all or nothing.

I don't mind CSG, but this would be a much more interesting way to go about it. However I think you would have to be sure the HW were nasty enough first.

[Diazo]

Reading through the thread, the general feeling seems to be that the AI Homeworld is "just another planet", not something special.

Now, Keith has hinted he is working on something so I would really like to see what is happening there before getting too involved in this, but I think there needs to be a trigger of some sort, something like:

AI Homeworlds not on alert: Game as it is now.
AI Homeworld on alert: Those AIs forces behave different somehow. The normal waves enter through the exo-galactic wormhole, it releases a mini-CPA from it's planets every 10 minutes, all ships on it's planets are released onto threat, but all further reinforcements go to the AI homeworld, something.

There needs to be a fundamental mechanic change of some sort that makes the homeworld different then the 10 worlds the player conquered to get there.

Now, Keith has been quiet the past few days so I'm hoping for something excellent out of him soon, but we have to wait and see.

D.

[keith.lamothe]

Poll back to allowing vote changes, and max possible votes per person back up to number of options.

Now, Keith has been quiet the past few days so I'm hoping for something excellent out of him soon, but we have to wait and see.

Sorry to disappoint, I've actually just been sick

[Diazo]

Ugh. Talk about timing, I took a sick day from work yesterday too. 

Anyways, we'll be back to the regular patches soon enough then. 

D.

[Trandrin]

Think I might have to change my vote a bit after my last game. I got to the home worlds and it was rather simple. Other then the Neinzul Roach Spawner it didn't really cause any change in my tactics. Just a bit beefier AI eye watched world. Maybe it was just due to no expansions though. Doing another game with the Zenith Remnant active so we will see.

 I don't think its difficulty should be that much increased, but maybe a mechanic to make it a bit more interesting?

[rabican]

Definately needs increasing.

Afaik the hw is supposed to be multipart boss battle kinda thing. So here is my suggestion:

New strcture (or just exogalactic wormhole orsomething reacts this way), that send waves at certain points in the battle.

1. Military ships enter the system.

2. Home ffs/fort gets destroyed.

3. Core guard post gets destroyed. (only on higher difficulties, maybe % amount of posts like half on some difficulty or some such)

Ideally number one wave would need a lot of time to recharge and recharges during the game. So if you attack hw early you get smaller wave and later would get bigger wave and if you have to attack HW twice because you get pwned the first time the 2nd time around the wave wouldn't be as massive if you don't give it time to build up.

2 & 3 type waves should be just fully aip dependant, instant one time things. Bit like raid engine but euh not like that.

[TechSY730]

Oh, how about once you attack the a homeworld for the first time, the AIP Floor goes up some. (Per AI home, so two such increases a game). This will sort of fit with the theme that you have shown yourself at least a certain level of threat to the AI.

[Faulty Logic]

Didn't really mean for all those to get put on the poll, was just trying to clarify the kind of thing I meant. Not that it does any harm.

You voted "other" (or at least an other vote coincided really well with your post) which I use as "I want stuff added to the poll."

Poll back to allowing vote changes, and max possible votes per person back up to number of options.

Now, Keith has been quiet the past few days so I'm hoping for something excellent out of him soon, but we have to wait and see.

Sorry to disappoint, I've actually just been sick

You have my sympathy. Thanks for unfreezing the poll again.

Oh, how about once you attack the a homeworld for the first time, the AIP Floor goes up some. (Per AI home, so two such increases a game). This will sort of fit with the theme that you have shown yourself at least a certain level of threat to the AI.

If we are going to do some kind of AIP based response, I think that the players should get 50 AIP (and the corresponding floor increase) as soon as they enter a HW (and another 50 at the other one). The final destruction cost would be lowered to 50 to compensate. The floor could go up separately as well, but I don't see that as having an impact.

To people who voted "other":
I try to use that as a "number of people who want new options added" count. I would like you to remove the "other" votes if you are now happy with the poll options. If you are not happy, please post specifically what you would like me to add.