Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (II)

[Coppermantis]

Spirecraft Scouts need to have their attrition time increased significantly. I can scout a 60 planet galaxy with just a pair of Mk. IIs. There is no need at all to build any higher marks.

I'm not sure why you think this is a bad thing.  You permanently expended a Xampite asteroid to get those scouts, instead of something else, like a Mk III Martyr or a Mk I Penetrator.  You're also permanently taking Exowaves.
All for something that you can do with normal scouts, or a game lobby option?  Doesn't seem like that's overpowered to me.


It's a bad thing because there's no reason to build higher level scouts. I can scout the entire galaxy with Mk. IIs (I've even heard of people doing it with Mk. I, but that would probably be on a smaller galaxy) so why would I waste higher-tier asteroids on Mk. III-V? The description says that they are better for being sentries than actual scouts (except for the high level ones) but that's just not true.

[DeBunny]

I'm not sold on that AIP argument, since nukes do the same thing and are probably worse at the planet-clearing job.
Lots of things are nuke immune, but less so to wasps last time I checked.

I will grant that Eyes shut them down pretty hard, but I haven't really been seeing too many of those lately. (Which is odd...)

As far as exo-waves go, if I'm getting those, then I'm not taking the AIP, which is fair to me, and doesn't really require me to do anything different. Just condense my masses of turrets and forts a little more. And if it gets really bad, I can just use that pretty golem I got to wipe them out.

If the golem was limited use, or irreparable or something, I'd probably be convinced that it was justified in its strength. But it really isn't.
I can use it over and over to wipe out whatever planet/wave/hobo I please, with admitted exceptions for Eyes and gravity effects.
Nuclear warheads are kind of ugly expensive as well, but they're only single use, every single one gives AIP, and they're hard countered by simple resistances and warhead interception.

Maybe I'm overdoing the nuke comparison, but the similarity seems very present to me.

[chemical_art]

Really, its the matter of having a golem cost 1 million every 15 minutes to launch one strong "wave". In no way is that using it "over and over". Its a very real material and time cost. The fact it is SHUT DOWN by gravity or ai eyes, as opposed to just a counter, is still very true. AI homeworlds counter hive golems as almost half of the brutal picks shut it down as well.

Almost every other golem costs a sliver of the resources needed for the hive golem (aside from that dreadful regen golem) for they are only activated when needed.

[rabican]

About grav turrets:

I'm willing to bet that none of the players that don't recognize their nerf worthiness have used higher marks.    MK III range is 9k and speed limit 2.  SO missile frigates can ourange that but you can completly shut down those with antimissile thingie.  And what do you have then? 3minutes of free firing time on enemies with your long range weapons. Per turret. Add in radar jammer , FFs, anti sniper turrets and you have complete immunity to 90% of AIS arsenal. Exo waves of course bypass this untill the lead ship is  cleared but that doesn't really matter(as in if these things stop any number of enemies 99% of time easily, the 1% isn't going to matter that much)

[Wanderer]

I'm willing to bet that none of the players that don't recognize their nerf worthiness have used higher marks.    MK III range is 9k and speed limit 2. 

This is true, I rarely ever open higher than MK I, and I don't believe they need a nerf.  Also, to add in anti-missile that's 4000 K as well.

[Hearteater]

With a Radar Jammer you don't even need the anti-missile turret.

[Kahuna]

With a Radar Jammer you don't even need the anti-missile turret.

MarkI Radar Jammer is useless and MarkII is too expensive.

[KDR_11k]

About grav turrets:

I'm willing to bet that none of the players that don't recognize their nerf worthiness have used higher marks.    MK III range is 9k and speed limit 2.  SO missile frigates can ourange that but you can completly shut down those with antimissile thingie.  And what do you have then? 3minutes of free firing time on enemies with your long range weapons. Per turret. Add in radar jammer , FFs, anti sniper turrets and you have complete immunity to 90% of AIS arsenal. Exo waves of course bypass this untill the lead ship is  cleared but that doesn't really matter(as in if these things stop any number of enemies 99% of time easily, the 1% isn't going to matter that much)

Also exos only appear when superweapons are enabled. Grav turrets don't require that.

I guess overall the proper nerf would just be to remove mkII and up?

[Hearteater]

MarkI Radar Jammer is useless and MarkII is too expensive.

Yes to MArk I...but the MArk II too expensive???  I don't even know what to say to that.  I don't even consider the cost noteworthy.  5 million of each is trivial really.  I don't really consider a Super Fortress too bad, and that's 18 million each.  My last game I got an Ion IV to 95% before I won, and that costs 43 million of each.

[rabican]

Actually mark I is jsut fine if you back them up with forts.

MarkI Radar Jammer is useless and MarkII is too expensive.

Yes to MArk I...but the MArk II too expensive???  I don't even know what to say to that.  I don't even consider the cost noteworthy.  5 million of each is trivial really.  I don't really consider a Super Fortress too bad, and that's 18 million each.  My last game I got an Ion IV to 95% before I won, and that costs 43 million of each.

Different play styles. Kahuna never goes past ~5 planets i think.

[Wanderer]

MarkI Radar Jammer is useless and MarkII is too expensive.

Yes to MArk I...but the MArk II too expensive???  I don't even know what to say to that.  I don't even consider the cost noteworthy.  5 million of each is trivial really.  I don't really consider a Super Fortress too bad, and that's 18 million each.  My last game I got an Ion IV to 95% before I won, and that costs 43 million of each.

   What the heck does your economy look like?!  Dear lord wow.

[Hearteater]

Different play styles. Kahuna never goes past ~5 planets i think.

I build my ZPG with just my Homeworld.  That costs 3.6 million each.  I started around the 1 hour mark, and had it done somewhere mid-2 hour mark, without interrupting my offensive operations.  So I can't call 5 million each expensive at all.

  What the heck does your economy look like?!  Dear lord wow.

In that game I built: Ion III, 2x OMD, BHM, Radar Jammer II, Super Fortress, Armor Inhib, Armor Booster and Counter Spy on my whipping boy (which had a Gravity Drill) and got 95% through the Ion IV.  Check out the Choke Point Defense image.  Notice I also dropped an Ion V because if I finished the Ion IV I was going to start on that.

[KDR_11k]

Radar Jammers were the most fun when they capped range instead of halving it, created completely different dynamics between ships with the range differences gone. Of course that makes MkIIs waaaaay overpowered.

[Kahuna]

Actually mark I is jsut fine if you back them up with forts.

MarkI Radar Jammer is useless and MarkII is too expensive.

Yes to MArk I...but the MArk II too expensive???  I don't even know what to say to that.  I don't even consider the cost noteworthy.  5 million of each is trivial really.  I don't really consider a Super Fortress too bad, and that's 18 million each.  My last game I got an Ion IV to 95% before I won, and that costs 43 million of each.

Different play styles. Kahuna never goes past ~5 planets i think.

Oh ye that's true. I play 10/10 almost exclusively so I keep the AIP as low as possible.

[KDR_11k]

Crap, we forgot to nominate the railcluster.