Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (II)

[keith.lamothe]

Nominations from this thread.  Also look there if you want an explanation of what we're doing here.

(note: The AI did catch some of the nominations that didn't follow directions, but it probably selectively omitted some of them.  There's always the next poll )

So, who gets the bat?  2 votes per person this time, and I'll try to do something with the top 2 results (excluding anything which fails to do better than the "None of the above" option), but probably not more than that because "processing" the results tends to significantly bog down if there's a ton of winners.

This is specifically just for the human units.  Obviously, nerfing some units will nerf them for both sides, but there's a separate poll from the specifically "nerf this for AI usage" nominations.

Thanks for the feedback

[Eternaly_Lost]

Personally, I don't think any of these need a nerf, there is counters to everything, it more luck of the draw if the AI sends the real counter against these things.

There is plenty (or at least one annoying one) of units that ignore gravity. The Heavy Beam Turret costs quite a bit and if you get hit with seperate waves or any reasonable exo-wave they die rather quickly.

Hive Golem is nice, but once you trigger it it takes a long time to rebuild that bam it has.

Martyrs are a one shot deal each and often I find that they are on the weaker side against some of the threat buildups I have. It takes quite a few of them to take out 10,000+ threat sitting on the other side of a wormhole.

The Spirecraft Jumpship, Spirecraft Penetrator and Spirecraft Scout are rather powerful, but they are built from a limited resource (like the Martyrs) and once they are gone they are gone.

Tackle Drone Launchers are more annoying then anything else and mine die quite happly to things immune to Trackers like Starships, Hunter killers and Mother ships.

Zenith Paralyzers... How did they even get in here? I personally think that they might need a buff...

[Aeson]

I voted for the Gravity units (all of them) option, more because I think they slow things by enough that they become annoying to engage or deal with (particularly Gravity Drills, though those can be as much of a blessing as a curse) rather than that they are excessively powerful.

[Lancefighter]

Threw in some votes. Really tough choices, because I am not really sure any of these actually *need* a nerf. ill grant you that a collection of mk1 spirecraft scouts will likely scout the entire galaxy before dieing (which definitely could use nerfing).

Going to be sad to see any of these get nerfed too much though

[Hearteater]

I only voted gravity turrets, specifically because mark 2+ have such high caps.  Even mark 1 might need a tweak (speed 10 instead of .  There is a mantis issue that touches on this but I'll need to find it when I'm not on my phone.

[Wanderer]

I voted for the Gravity units (all of them) option, more because I think they slow things by enough that they become annoying to engage or deal with (particularly Gravity Drills, though those can be as much of a blessing as a curse) rather than that they are excessively powerful.

You're aware that voting for the grav units in THIS poll basically means Grav Turrets and anything grav based for the player, not the AI?

[Kahuna]

I voted for the Gravity units (all of them) option, more because I think they slow things by enough that they become annoying to engage or deal with (particularly Gravity Drills, though those can be as much of a blessing as a curse) rather than that they are excessively powerful.

You're aware that voting for the grav units in THIS poll basically means Grav Turrets and anything grav based for the player, not the AI?

It would seriously nerf the player. Player shouldn't be nerfed but balanced.

[KDR_11k]

The only one of those I've used recently is the grav turret and that thing doesn't seem all that OP since it's fairly easy for the AI to kill and human FFs aren't strong enough to turn them into the kind of massive roadblock that SGDs under AI FFs are. I won't vote "none" because I haven't seen enough of the rest to say anything. Maybe one of these days I should try building Spirecraft again, haven't used those in a loooooong time and even back then I only used siege towers and martyrs because the entire SC arsenal is so freaking overspecialized.

[DeBunny]

I didn't really feel the need for a nerf on most of these either, for mostly the reasons Eternaly_Lost mentioned.

Except for the Hive Golem.
Even with the massive recharge time, the thing is like a nuke-without-the-supply-mauling. Slide it through the wormhole, bap Unload, retreat, watch everything die horribly.
Which, while really funny, is probably kind of overpowered...a lot...

So that's my one vote.

[Coppermantis]

Spirecraft Scouts need to have their attrition time increased significantly. I can scout a 60 planet galaxy with just a pair of Mk. IIs. There is no need at all to build any higher marks.

Alternatively, buff the higher marks somehow, but I think the above is a more elegant solution.

[Aeson]

You're aware that voting for the grav units in THIS poll basically means Grav Turrets and anything grav based for the player, not the AI?

It also would include Gravity Drills, since those can be captured by the player, and those are annoying as anything. Also, if there is something that I don't like to have to deal with, I don't really want to be able to inflict that on an opponent while the opponent is unable to inflict the same on me, so since I voted in the other thread to nerf AI-side gravity units, my vote in this thread stands.

[Mánagarmr]

Terry will not be pleased...

[Hearteater]

I only voted gravity turrets, specifically because mark 2+ have such high caps.  Even mark 1 might need a tweak (speed 10 instead of .  There is a mantis issue that touches on this but I'll need to find it when I'm not on my phone.

Found it.  Here are some highlights:

I think the caps are just too high. There are at most 120 systems in a game, and how many do you need Gravity Turrets on? Even the 58 Mark I turrets are enough for most games. Once you have Mark III, Mark I are obsolete and so are Mark II are for all practical purposes.

Lowering Mark II and III caps is probably warranted. Heck, even Mark I might need a slight reduction. Maybe 48, 24, and 6.

Gravity Turrets do NOT scale with caps. Which is correct, because they are not affected by the number of units present.

[Toranth]

Spirecraft Scouts need to have their attrition time increased significantly. I can scout a 60 planet galaxy with just a pair of Mk. IIs. There is no need at all to build any higher marks.

I'm not sure why you think this is a bad thing.  You permanently expended a Xampite asteroid to get those scouts, instead of something else, like a Mk III Martyr or a Mk I Penetrator.  You're also permanently taking Exowaves.
All for something that you can do with normal scouts, or a game lobby option?  Doesn't seem like that's overpowered to me.

Except for the Hive Golem.
Even with the massive recharge time, the thing is like a nuke-without-the-supply-mauling. Slide it through the wormhole, bap Unload, retreat, watch everything die horribly.
Which, while really funny, is probably kind of overpowered...a lot...

You take an AIP hit to get a Hive Golem, minimum 20 AIP, up to 40 on Golems Medium.  Then you have to repair it, which should cost about 1.3 million M+C each.  Then it costs 700 M+C per second to keep it active during the 1000 (17 minutes) seconds while it charges (plus the 400-ish M+C/sec that the 200,000 energy costs require).  Total costs?  1.3 million M+C to acquire, plus another million M+C for each load of Wasps.  Not to mention everything you'll be spending to fight off the Exowaves that the golem brings.
That's a lot of effort for something that can be shut down completely by a bonus ship or a common Guardian type.  Homeworlds with either a Wrath Lance or a Gravity Reactor (or an AI Eye) will hard-counter the Wasps as well.
Despite all that, are you sure that the Golem is overpowered?

[Wingflier]

Don't forget that they are also useless on planets with eyes, which often includes the AI Homeworld.

The Hive Golem is indeed good, but overpowered? Nah. I'll take an Artillery Golem over that anyday.