Poll

Acquiring Target...

Alien modular forts
2 (3.7%)
Energy collectors
1 (1.9%)
EyeBot
0 (0%)
Gravity units/structures (all of them)
10 (18.5%)
Harvester Upgrades
6 (11.1%)
Manufactory (make conversion automatic)
11 (20.4%)
Mini forts
1 (1.9%)
Paralysis (the mechanic)
0 (0%)
Riot starships
1 (1.9%)
Shield bearers
0 (0%)
Spirecraft Jumpship transport
1 (1.9%)
Spirecraft Martyr
6 (11.1%)
Spirecraft Scout
9 (16.7%)
None of the above need a nerf!
6 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Author Topic: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)  (Read 2385 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« on: March 16, 2013, 10:10:30 AM »
Nominations from this thread.  Also look there if you want an explanation of what we're doing here.

So, who gets the bat?  2 votes per person this time, and I'll try to do something with the top 2 results (excluding anything which fails to do better than the "None of the above" option), but probably not more than that because "processing" the results tends to significantly bog down if there's a ton of winners.

This is specifically just for the human units.  Obviously, nerfing some units will nerf them for both sides, but there's a separate poll from the specifically "nerf this for AI usage" nominations.

Thanks for the feedback :)
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 10:43:55 AM »
I knew I wasn't going to have enough votes.  I'd have needed 5  :o .

Offline laughingman

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 11:13:39 AM »
I voted for scouts and manufactories. Maybe reduce the number of scouts per asteroid to 1, or increase their attrition on enemy planets.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 11:49:53 AM »
Just to clarify, what does a vote for harvestors imply? Does it mean removing how they are researched, or just how much they give. The former i consider good, the latter not.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 11:51:59 AM by chemical_art »
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Offline Hearteater

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 11:57:36 AM »
I believe the plan is to solicit some feedback after the vote.  When I suggested them for the nerf my focus was on how necessary they are, and how they scale per planet in a similar but superior method to Economy CS.  I wasn't suggesting the economy they provide was a problem.  Just we should get it in a better fashion.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 12:46:26 PM »
Voted Harvesters, because I feel you are forced to upgrade them in order to succeed in any reasonable amount of time on higher difficulties.  I think they need less of a nerf, and more of a rebalance so that the game operates more smoothly without having to upgrade them.

I also think the Manufactories are a little goofy, and very tedious as I'm constantly having to pop in and out of my CTRL settings to enable and disable them, while also having to manually turn them off after being disabled.  The entire thing could be dramatically improved.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 12:53:48 PM »
Just to clarify, what does a vote for harvestors imply? Does it mean removing how they are researched, or just how much they give. The former i consider good, the latter not.
Sorry, I should have clarified that one.  I just now changed the text of that option to "Harvester Upgrades".
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Offline Winge

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 02:40:06 PM »
I said Gravity units; those are a bit too overwhelming now.  That said, it's much worse on the AI side (big surprise).

I also nominated Riot Starships, but I want to emphasize that I only think they should be nerfed if we can get a Mk IV later on--basically what Faulty_Logic said in the other thread.
My other bonus ship is a TARDIS.

Offline Diazo

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 08:47:42 PM »
Okay, voted Alien Forts and None of the above.

I'm abstaining on the Spirecraft, never use them.

I voted for Alien Forts not because I believe the forts themselves are OP, but rather because the chokepoint has become too important to the game and the super powerful forts (all of them) are a big reason for this. Note that to actually address this would require a lot more then just tweaking stats on a few units, I'm taking about then entire "how I defend my empire" part of the game here.

None of the above because nothing else on the list jumps out at me as OP.

Automatic Manufactory: This would be a nice change I guess, but I don't bother messing with these as it is, the default automatic mode is good enough I've never noticed it costing me resources or time.

Gravity units: These are a core part of my defenses, I'm not sure how I would defend a planet with 5+ hostile wormholes without them. (I play lattice maps.) 5 or 6 games ago, my homeworld had 13 hostile wormholes on it. Okay, maybe the Mk I Gravity stuff is too powerful for the knowledge cost, but I don't want major changes here.

Harvesters: These I'm not sure on so I did not vote. I can run a low-aip game just fine on Mk I harvesters and Mk I econ command station but a mid to high AIP game, or one with any of the superweapons enabled (Fallen Spire, Golems, Spirecraft) are getting into where these are required.  Maybe reduce the spread between Mk I and Mk III harvesters? Also keep in mind the econ station would need tweaks to keep it (roughly) balanced with harvesters.

D.

Offline LaughingThesaurus

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 09:03:48 PM »
I voted spirecraft scouts and manufactories because;

Scouts: These guys are absolutely absurd. Once I was made aware of how powerful these were, I just hit auto-scout and watched as 75% of the map or so was revealed after having taken my third planet. While some tactics for scouting further can get a bit tedious, spirecraft scouts weren't intended to be there just to remove scouting. That's what the option on game creation is for. I vote for a tweak that maybe goes like this. They don't attrition on planets of their mark or lower. So, mark 1 scouts aren't useless for sentry purposes. However, they do attrition extremely quickly if they're on too high level of a planet. Don't know how to tweak mark V scouts in this case.

Manufactories: They're just clutter, I kind of agree. I'd rather the structure be omitted and have the process just be passive.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 09:31:55 PM »
Quote
I'm abstaining on the Spirecraft, never use them.
Spirecraft are a complete mess.  I think the entire thing needs to be looked at.

Some of them are unbelievably useful, others aren't even worth the cost.  I've never used them, I'd like to see them all rebalanced/repriced, with maybe some new ones added in.

As of now it's just a really strange mechanic that has never been any fun for me.
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Offline Aeson

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 11:08:05 PM »
I voted for Spirecraft Scouts and gravity units.

Scouts because, as mentioned, you essentially need just one asteroid's worth of the Mark I version to scout most or all of the galaxy. If the attrition really were active on worlds of mark less than or equal to the mark of the scout rather than just on worlds of lower mark, it would help bring these into line.

Gravity units because I'd like to see them change from an "everything in range moves this fast and no more" to something more along the lines of "lose X speed, but reduce to no slower than Y" with X being either a number or a percentage while Y is just a lower bound for the speed of affected units. Plus, right now I'll only unlock higher mark gravity units if I want more gravity coverage or better staying power, since the speed limit provided by the Mark I version is usually sufficient.

Offline Bognor

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 11:30:24 PM »
I have manufactory control on manual and I activate them from time to time.  Sometimes it's because I'm out of one resource, but more often because I've maxed one resource.  I don't desire autocontrol, but I guess I could live with it if (1) it worked when either resource was bottomed or maxed and (2) ideally, it notified the player when it activated.

I think a nerf of Spirecraft Scouts is appropriate, but only a small nerf.  With a bit of micromanagement, you can actually scout almost as well with Jumpships anyway (jump, pause, unload scouts, pause, reload scouts, pause, repeat; yeah, I know that's probably not intended, but I like it how I can deposit scout pickets on interesting worlds).  I still scout extensively by conventional means at the start of each game, just so I can make the best possible decision about which will be the first planet I take.  After that I'm sick of scouting so it doesn't bother me that Spirecraft Scouts can reveal the whole galaxy.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 11:32:39 PM »
I have manufactory control on manual and I activate them from time to time.  Sometimes it's because I'm out of one resource, but more often because I've maxed one resource.  I don't desire autocontrol, but I guess I could live with it if (1) it worked when either resource was bottomed or maxed and (2) ideally, it notified the player when it activated.


They already try do this (well, for the bottomed out case, if the bottomed out resource is trying to be used), but they do so very inconsistently and unreliably. Especially the bottomed out case. It's usually decently responsive about the maxxed out case.

Offline Diazo

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Re: Poll: Aim the Nerfbat of Damocles: Player-side (III)
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2013, 12:11:05 AM »
Keep in mind there is a throttle that only a few can activate/deactivate at a time.

It did used to be they would all go at once, but that did bad things to the economy for some reason.

I can dig the patch notes up on why, (I think it was way back in 5.020 or so,) but maybe just increasing that throttle might be the answer?

D.