Author Topic: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit  (Read 1999 times)

Offline ewokonfire

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Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« on: November 25, 2015, 06:14:23 AM »
I'm fairly inexperienced here, so I assume that I have not just broken the game.  However, I'd like to know what the AI can do about the following strategy:

1. Capture some Spire Civilian Leaders, so that the AIP is going down every hour rather than up.  This shouldn't be too hard to do, as they each give -3 per hour compared to the +1 for each non-captured one.

1.5. Acquire a Zenith Power Generator. (Optional, but useful)

2. Neutralize every planet adjacent to yours, except for command stations.  This includes wormhole posts.  Edit: Leave at least one warp gate, so waves have an entry point.  This will take a while, but isn't totally impractical, especially on Concentric/Snake/Maze maps.

3. Build a ring of turrets around the AI command station on each of these planets.  (This is where the ZPG comes in helpful)  Add some FRD rebuilders to the mix.

4. Put the game onto !!! speed, stick Netflix on another monitor, and wait a few hours.  Move your fleet to block waves when applicable.

5. AIP is now right at the floor, and if you repeat steps 2-4 after every capture, it will stay that way.  The AI can't reinforce (as whenever it tries to reinforce an alerted planet, the ships get instantly shot to bits), so the number of AI ships doesn't increase, and so providing you can handle the waves (which you should be able to, as you can move your whole fleet to block each one) then things can only improve with waiting.

So, how does the AI block this?  Is it a 'the punishment for pudding farming is pudding farming' situation, where anyone patient enough to actually carry this out deserves the rewards?  Or does the AI have a trick up it's sleeve for this?  Thanks in advance for any replies.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 06:18:20 AM by ewokonfire »

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 06:32:51 AM »
Not only is it slow as fudge but everytime AIP increases, so does the floor. So even if you keep the AIP pinned at the floor, the floor will keep rising, so while the strategy is efficient in terms of AIP, its not efficient in terms of time. If you have a periodic AIP increase (which you will have with Spire Civs), the floor will keep rising with time too, not just conquests. So it's not an exploit as it makes you slow and you still increase the floor.
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Offline ewokonfire

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 06:38:48 AM »
That makes sense, I didn't know that the auto-progress increased the floor, I thought it was just superterminal and homeworld stuff.  Thanks for the response.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 07:24:06 AM »
In addition, the very slow progress is going to make every world a BIG chore to conquer, as it'll have plenty of time to build up to maximum reinforcements. The SF fleet is likely to be huge too. There's just too many drawbacks to make it a viable strategy.
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 09:33:44 AM »
AI War has a ton of options. Different combinations of different options have different impact. Some options impact the game more than others. You can play this game however you want. Depending on the settings this game can be steam rolly easy or plain impossible. It is encouraged to try different settings and see what tickles your fancy. So by all means set all minor factions and AI plots to 10/10 (etc.) and watch as the game breaks.
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   set /A me=SadPanda
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Offline Bognor

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 06:06:16 AM »
I can't find it in the patch notes, but I remember Keith adding a feature where in every reinforcement cycle, there's a small chance that the homeworlds (and coreworlds?) will be reinforced, even if they're not on alert.  So I think applying your strategy might lead to a nasty surprise near the end of the game.

3. Build a ring of turrets around the AI command station on each of these planets.
Sounds like this might put neighbouring AI planets on alert, making them able to be reinforced and defeating the purpose of the whole strategy.
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Offline Elestan

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 09:56:05 PM »
3. Build a ring of turrets around the AI command station on each of these planets.
Sounds like this might put neighbouring AI planets on alert, making them able to be reinforced and defeating the purpose of the whole strategy.
Not as long as you have less than 50 units in the system.  I do something similar to this to keep adjacent planets suppressed.  Each planet gets a scout, a rebuilder, an engineer, and 46 turrets.

This strategy's effectiveness is a consequence of the effectiveness of neutering.  The way to counter this would be to change the AIP allotment:  Make the command station 5, the warp gate 3, and every guard post 1.  That way, you couldn't just create vast swaths of neutered territory without spiking the AIP.

Offline NickAragua

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 01:40:46 PM »
This sounds like pretty standard beach-heading to me. As others have pointed out, the increasing AIP floor makes the "put on netflix" part a non-option. It's still somewhat useful for keeping AI reinforcements down. Additionally, there will be some minor problems with this plan as soon as a cross-planet attack comes out or threat accumulates otherwise (or some other kind of non-standard AI action occurs), at which point the free-floating AI fleets will chomp your little beach heads up pretty good.

Offline Elestan

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 10:12:00 PM »
This sounds like pretty standard beach-heading to me. As others have pointed out, the increasing AIP floor makes the "put on netflix" part a non-option. It's still somewhat useful for keeping AI reinforcements down. Additionally, there will be some minor problems with this plan as soon as a cross-planet attack comes out or threat accumulates otherwise (or some other kind of non-standard AI action occurs), at which point the free-floating AI fleets will chomp your little beach heads up pretty good.
I usually think of "beachheading" as establishing structures in a system I'm in the process of taking, whereas these are for suppressing an already-conquered system.  Usually, I only do this for systems behind my front lines, which are fortified enough to withstand most attacks smaller than an exo-wave.  For those...yeah, there's usually some rebuilding needed.  Not always, though; often the AI just ignores the turrets if they're not in the path toward my home station.

Offline Vacuity

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2015, 05:20:23 AM »
For people who prefer taking their time (I tend to take 20-30 hours per game) the civilian leaders do tend to make things a *lot* easier, yes, but as others have said there are other factors at play which make life harder the longer the game goes on: CPAs; special forces ; exo waves, and reinforced homeworlds being the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

I tend to have the Hunter subplot set high, and also have exo waves on for my golem and spirecraft toys and they get progressively harder even if the AIP is going nowhere in particular.  In those circumstances, I'm basically just trading one kind of challenge (bigger waves) for another (monstrous special forces and exos).  I think it's fun!

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Please explain to me why this isn't a game-breaking exploit
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2015, 04:08:02 PM »
Back in the ye old days before salvage and reprisals AIP reducing effects were a lot more noticable. They still are, actually, and are great for deep strikes even if one doesn't normally take many worlds. I think they are fine the way they are.
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