Author Topic: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function  (Read 2369 times)

Offline Fleet

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Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« on: December 22, 2010, 08:57:57 pm »
The release notes say they halve the effectiveness of the ship it protects, and adds its health to the ships. What is effectiveness?

Offline x4000

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 09:00:18 pm »
Ah, sorry.  The resource gathering.  It halves how many resources are gathered by the harvesters under protection.  That's more in line with how they used to be, although actually it used to be closer to 2/3.
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Offline Fleet

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 09:05:11 pm »
Ok thanks!

Another note...when I read the release notes, it seems like I can use them on any ship. Are these still harvester specific?

I was thinking this would be an awesome mechanic for protecting high value targets, like the fabricators I talked about earlier that are immune to blade or at a tough-to-defend location.

Offline x4000

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 09:13:59 pm »
Sure thing!

They're still just for harvesters.  There has been some discussion about some constructor-specific exo-shields, but Keith and I have mixed feelings on that and it's definitely a long way off.  The only reason these work very well is that it's a trade of half resources for security, and that same sort of give-and-take isn't there with most other kinds of targets, making it hard to balance.  At any rate, it's not on my list of things I want to investigate at the moment, anyway, I still have a really long list of things to get working. :)
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Offline Fleet

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 09:15:38 pm »
Thanks for the clarification. Just reading that they were redone, and then reading "ships" instead of "harvesters", I thought just maybe...

I need an RSS feed for the release notes ;) it update soo much

Offline x4000

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 09:16:35 pm »
 :P
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Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 09:31:09 pm »
Ah, sorry.  The resource gathering.  It halves how many resources are gathered by the harvesters under protection.  That's more in line with how they used to be, although actually it used to be closer to 2/3.

And again, exo-harvestors are useless.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 09:39:51 pm »
They are, and always were, a crutch for inexperienced players.  For those players who have a planet or two where the harvesters are always being scoured off the face of the map, this lets them at least get half resources instead of none.  For very advanced players, I agree they are useless.  But, like the advanced warp sensor, they simply aren't meant for you. ;)
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 10:05:04 pm »
I'd actually think they'd end up crippling inexperienced players, who wouldn't understand the implications of putting them everywhere. I have to agree with Lance here, with a cost like that I can't imagine any scenario where any player of any level would be well served to spend knowledge on these things.

As to advanced warp sensors, they can be quite useful at the very beginning of the game for any level of player, they're just useless after the first hour or so (and have a knowledge cost that's reasonable given that).

Offline x4000

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 10:11:48 pm »
Well... exo-shields are one of those elements that have been in there since pre-1.0.  And they were added specifically at the request of some players (either alpha players, or some customers, I can't remember which).  They were never a unit I was personally interested in at all, but some players love them, is all I can say.

In terms of their costs, they are actually more generous now than they used to be (it was -2 metal and crystal when each harvester gave +6 of one resource, so it was a 2/3 cost).  Now it's a flat 50%, and only of the related resource.  In recent versions I had simply been ignoring the exo-shield's costs as the harvesters went up in generation, and so they became this wicked-good unit sort of behind my back, heh.

I think they are still legitimately useful on some border planets -- as I noted, half is better than nothing for planets that you are intentionally having as a whipping boy.  There are cases in multiplayer games of mine where there's two planets each with 12ish harvester nodes on there, and we can't keep any of them alive.  That really would be a good potential place for the exo-shields, they would be cost-positive there.

On the flip side, these are a supremely old unit, and I've never heard anyone saying that they were surprised that they'd been using them wrong, or were tanking their economy because of it, etc.  When people see a massive cost like that, it makes them really wary.  These are one of those units that are just destined for niche usage, to my mind.  When you need them you really need them, but you almost never do, especially the more advanced you get.

And, as a new player, again, I think it's better to get half than nothing if you're struggling that much (to quote It's A Wonderful Life, apparently. ;)).
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 10:18:11 pm »
*shrug* It's not a big issue from my perspective, I've never used them. My usually co-op partner has unlocked them the last couple of times, presumably because of their relatively modest resource cost. I think the main purpose they've served for him, though, is keeping harvesters alive after the command station's been knocked off a planet, so in light of the new changes to that they'd be totally irrelevant for us anyway. I'm perfectly content to go back to ignoring them (as I do the space time manipulators), it always just makes me a little sad to see an option in a strategy game that I can't find a use for. :)

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 10:21:58 pm »
I've used them once or twice, but with such steep resource costs now..

Perhaps they also need to become harvestor defense stations or something, leeching their resource to provide guns/shield/etc.

Possibly even make it in such a way that you turn the resource spot into a battlestation, at the cost of all of the resources there. But that might be going a tad far :p
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Offline Suzera

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 10:28:20 pm »
I've actually used exo-shields now and then as a cheap time-filler against certain backflows and counterposts for a mid-fight fleet rebuild. Not very often and not as a main thing, but sometimes the AI taking 5-10 minutes per planet to blow up the exo-shields was useful. If the AI won't target them anymore that would probably hurt that use of them though...

Offline x4000

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 10:30:23 pm »
Well... probably a tad far, Lance, yeah.  :P

Vinraith, I know what you mean in terms of the sentiment, but I think it boils down to enabling multiple playstyles.  For the record I don't use the zenith spacetime manipulators either, but I know of others that do.  I think that boils down to letting people personalize the game, really.  It was my error that the exo-shields were the way they were recently, they were never intended to be thus.

Suzera, previously the AI would ignore them (or should have generally), but now the AI will handle them more appropriately.  Aka, attacking when able, etc.
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: Please clarify the new exo-forcefield's function
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 10:47:33 pm »
Yup, like I said it's not a big deal to me, and I understand where you're coming from. No worries. :)