Planar graphs? (Maps without wormhole intersections)

[Junuxx]

Hi there!

I've been playing this game for the last week or so. It's fun I guess but I'm not really getting into it (yet). I probably have to change my turtle ways because, regardless of the difficulty I choose and me trying to skip unnecessary planets, I keep getting stuck in situations where the only relevant targets on the map have a gazillion enemy Core ships on them against whom I don't stand a chance. And it is sorta dissapointing to me to have a 15 hour game end in an apparent total deadlock. But anyway, I wanted to make a suggestion regarding the map styles.

Even the simplest map types like Simple and Snake frequently feature intersecting wormhole paths, which in my opinion make the map messy and confusing. Wouldn't it be a nice idea to have at least some map types that would enforce planar graphs? For Snake and Tree maps, and Simple ones with no more than 3 wormholes per planet, a planar graph is guaranteed to exist and is just a matter of rearranging vertices (ie planets).

Of course this is mostly cosmetic, but I also think it would improve cognitive ergonomics. What do you think?

[keith.lamothe]

Step 1) Get latest prerelease.
Step 2) Go to galaxy map.
Step 3) X+right-click map.
Step 4) Click "Galaxy Layouts >".
Step 5) Click "Switch Displayed Layout".
Step 6) Click "Switch To My Alternate Layout".
Step 7) Shift-left-click-drag planets around until the graph looks the way you want.
Step Thank RCIX and other players for continuing to bug us about this

You can also use alt-left-click on a planet to perform a basic pull-in-chains operation on it (makes a cluster of it and all linked planets with link cardinality <= 2; mostly noticeable on snake/spokes and that sort of thing).

[Junuxx]

Neat! Thanks for the swift reply 

[keith.lamothe]

Let me know if that works out

In working on graph untangling algorithms and manual untangling, I found the latter more entertaining, so I passed it onto y'all

[RCIX]

Thanks for that by the way! @Junuxx: you're welcome

[rubikscube]

perhaps he would want an automated galaxy simplifier that makes it simple automatically or different styles to choose from and of course if doensn't work make your own

[Junuxx]

Let me know if that works out

In working on graph untangling algorithms and manual untangling, I found the latter more entertaining, so I passed it onto y'all

Thanks again, it works quite well to untangle a messy galaxy map. It can indeed be fun to play around with, and I also found that arraning systems in a specific way can help me develop my long term strategy.

The option does seem a bit hidden/obscure to me though.

perhaps he would want an automated galaxy simplifier that makes it simple automatically or different styles to choose from and of course if doensn't work make your own

Yes. A map type where every planet has 1, 2 or 3 warp points can always be drawn without intersections and I think that would give good-looking and beginner-friendly maps.

[keith.lamothe]

The option does seem a bit hidden/obscure to me though.

Yes, that is one of the challenges with so many functions/features.  Though in this case it's more obscure than it will be since it was added about 16 days ago and we haven't worked in all the documentation yet (since it's been in flux and not wanting to keep changing the documentation, etc).

perhaps he would want an automated galaxy simplifier that makes it simple automatically or different styles to choose from and of course if doensn't work make your own

Yes. A map type where every planet has 1, 2 or 3 warp points can always be drawn without intersections and I think that would give good-looking and beginner-friendly maps.

Yea, I originally looked at that kind of method but found it not useful in the general case (indeed, it's NP-complete in the general case), but it would be fine for a map constrained to 3 wormholes max per planet.  That might be a good map type for the mini-expansion coming up soon (new map types are expansion-only, fyi)

[Buttons840]

The context menus are difficult to access and use IMO.  I don't have any suggestions right now, but there is certainly room for improvement.

[keith.lamothe]

Definitely, it's just a step away from keyboard combos and chords (nothing against emacs, but despite the fact that it could simulate an RTS it would not be a good interface to one).  One step Chris suggested was removing the graphical "pause all" button in the bottom left and replacing it with a button that opens the context menu.  I'd also like to have a single keystroke that pops it open at the current mouse location (though there might be a better place).

And then there's the actual interaction and behavior of the window, which is very barebones at this point.  One thing I'd really like is a few keyboard keys for navigating through or activating options, and some of the advanced command menus would work well in series-input-mode (click to start radius line, click to end radius line, click to start arc-width line, click to end arc-width line, etc etc, click to execute).  And some of the stuff I put in there is just crazy-advanced and might be better stuffed away in an advanced submenu unless the poor player checks the "I'm asking for it" checkbox in settings  

Some folks have suggested a radial layout but that seems like it would just get in the way even more (the existing one frequently gets in my way as-is), not to mention be a royal pain code-wise compared to a simple vertical layout (which it would have to default to at some point if you had too many options to fit well in a radial, etc).

Anyway I'm certainly open to suggestions

[rubikscube]

then the map will have to be bigger if it was simplified and more spreaded

[Winter Born]

I know the scenario editor is coming. I think it would be excelent to create a group of basic detangled maps for beginners (one or 2 of each style). If one could lay out the map in "my alt layout" then somehow save it as the primary map that would be amazing. Is that possible, or even nessisary given the concise directions Keith posted that I assume will get into a tutorial.


On the pause all button -- I think I have used it 1 time  I would not miss it.

[orzelek]

Do you have a way currently to map the context menu to one of additional mouse keys? I think that most of mice now have at least 4th button if not more.

[keith.lamothe]

I could look at that, yea.  But I'm not sure about most mice; all the one's I've had lately only had 3 counting the wheel.  And personally all I have is a touchpad (the Q-W-E-R keys are my constant companion, to say the least).

[Winter Born]

Do you have a way currently to map the context menu to one of additional mouse keys? I think that most of mice now have at least 4th button if not more.

I have a wheel mouse for my notebook with 2 buttons, wheel, and wheel click ---- maybe the wheel click??

my 2 cents