Parasites.

[BobTheJanitor]

Just damage. If Mark V isn't meant to be reclaimed, that's fine with me. But I just hate having my units that fire reclamation shots be almost useless on Core worlds, and entirely useless on AI homeworlds. Even if they took a damage nerf, I'd like to be able to use them to do something for the endgame battles. 

[TechSY730]

Don't worry. These changes only effect contributions to then reclaimation threshold. Actual HP damage isn't accected at all by these new multipliers. Mk. I reclaimers will get no HP damage penalty against higher Mk. ships.

[BobTheJanitor]

I'm mainly concerned with my beloved botnet golems. I hate how they can solo low mark worlds but can't do anything at all to high mark ones. Maybe that's a form of balance, but it isn't much fun at the endgame. I just want them to be able to shoot things, even if they can't zombify them.

[TechSY730]

I'm mainly concerned with my beloved botnet golems. I hate how they can solo low mark worlds but can't do anything at all to high mark ones. Maybe that's a form of balance, but it isn't much fun at the endgame. I just want them to be able to shoot things, even if they can't zombify them.

Is the per bullet damage of those things really low now or something?

Anyways, if this new multiplier mechanic also gets applied to zombifing ships, then this would be a great buff for the bot-net golem in terms of how well they make zombie. As golems are Mk. V, they will recieve a relamation contribution bonus against everything that is not a Mk. V.

HP damage wise though, this change won't touch them.

[BobTheJanitor]

Is the per bullet damage of those things really low now or something?

Vs Mark V ships or anything else immune to reclamation the damage of a botnet golem is 0.

[Sunshine!]

But against anything else, it's something like 40 million, right?

Regarding Core ships, one option could be giving all reclaimers (including Botnet Golems, or maybe just botnet golems since zombification is different than reclaiming) something like a .01 damage multiplier (stacked on top of their other multiplier) against Mk5 ships only?  That way it's still possible to reclaim MkV ships, it just takes an excessive amount of focus fire along with parasites being near worthless at killing them.

[BobTheJanitor]

But against anything else, it's something like 40 million, right?

Regarding Core ships, one option could be giving all reclaimers (including Botnet Golems, or maybe just botnet golems since zombification is different than reclaiming) something like a .01 damage multiplier (stacked on top of their other multiplier) against Mk5 ships only?  That way it's still possible to reclaim MkV ships, it just takes an excessive amount of focus fire along with parasites being near worthless at killing them.

Yeah against anything else it pretty much one-shots them. Like I said, as it stands they're pretty well balanced, it's just depressing to get to the core worlds and be forced to mothball the botnet golem. That could be entirely the planned design, good vs lower marks and useless vs mark V. With anything else I could accept it, but a golem just feels like it should be mighty enough to break all the rules.

[TechSY730]

But against anything else, it's something like 40 million, right?

Regarding Core ships, one option could be giving all reclaimers (including Botnet Golems, or maybe just botnet golems since zombification is different than reclaiming) something like a .01 damage multiplier (stacked on top of their other multiplier) against Mk5 ships only?  That way it's still possible to reclaim MkV ships, it just takes an excessive amount of focus fire along with parasites being near worthless at killing them.

Yeah against anything else it pretty much one-shots them. Like I said, as it stands they're pretty well balanced, it's just depressing to get to the core worlds and be forced to mothball the botnet golem. That could be entirely the planned design, good vs lower marks and useless vs mark V. With anything else I could accept it, but a golem just feels like it should be mighty enough to break all the rules.

Well if 40 million is more than enough to one shot everything reclaimable, why not nerf it to where it can just barely one shot almost everything reclaimable, but then allow it to hit non-reclaimable ships.
To keep that from getting too out of hand, they should have a 0x multiplier against scout, structural, and command station.

[Sunshine!]

With anything else I could accept it, but a golem just feels like it should be mighty enough to break all the rules.

And this is Part 2 of why Black Widow Golems should be better than they currently are *nudge nudge*

[RogueThunder]

Good solution on making the MkIV and V parasites once again feel meaningful. I like it alot.

And... Interesting teatment of Spire Tele Leaches. Still doesn't deal with the underlying issue. That they are built to operate alone(being teleports), and struggle to kill things alone. But at the same time it makes them a TERRIFYING parasite-marker. They probably work quite well in tandem with very-long-range ships now... Though requiring a lil micro. Still think they could use another mult considering how narrow their current ones are for parasiting purposes... and that narrow being ships they'd do fine against mostly without the mult.

[keith.lamothe]

They probably work quite well in tandem with very-long-range ships now... Though requiring a lil micro.

Yea, I think teleportation is an inherently-micro-encouraging mechanic, though a bit less with the paralyzed-after-teleporting thing.

Still think they could use another mult considering how narrow their current ones are for parasiting purposes... and that narrow being ships they'd do fine against mostly without the mult.

If anything I'm likely to remove the bonuses and bump up the normal dps; parasites with bonuses are a bit fiddly in general, since it makes it very hard (or easy) to reclaim ships of particular hull types.

[TechSY730]

I noticed that in the release notes that these changes were only happening regular reclaimers, not zombie ones. Why not? It seems like this sort of change would let the zombie gaurdian have less insane DPS (right now, its DPS is CRAZY high), but still make it able to zombify well.

Not sure what can be done for the botnet golem though.

[RogueThunder]

They probably work quite well in tandem with very-long-range ships now... Though requiring a lil micro.

Yea, I think teleportation is an inherently-micro-encouraging mechanic, though a bit less with the paralyzed-after-teleporting thing.

Still think they could use another mult considering how narrow their current ones are for parasiting purposes... and that narrow being ships they'd do fine against mostly without the mult.

If anything I'm likely to remove the bonuses and bump up the normal dps; parasites with bonuses are a bit fiddly in general, since it makes it very hard (or easy) to reclaim ships of particular hull types.

Agreed on the tele being micro-encouraging bit.

Actually. Removing the bonuses and increasing general DPS... I actually like that idea for Spire Teleport Leaches. Would leave them VERY unique for a parasite, and distinct from Tele Stations in that regard. Would allow them general effectiveness... But no focused effectiveness...
Hadn't thought of that somehow.

[Zeba]

They probably work quite well in tandem with very-long-range ships now... Though requiring a lil micro.

Yea, I think teleportation is an inherently-micro-encouraging mechanic, though a bit less with the paralyzed-after-teleporting thing.

Still think they could use another mult considering how narrow their current ones are for parasiting purposes... and that narrow being ships they'd do fine against mostly without the mult.

If anything I'm likely to remove the bonuses and bump up the normal dps; parasites with bonuses are a bit fiddly in general, since it makes it very hard (or easy) to reclaim ships of particular hull types.

Agreed on the tele being micro-encouraging bit.

Actually. Removing the bonuses and increasing general DPS... I actually like that idea for Spire Teleport Leaches. Would leave them VERY unique for a parasite, and distinct from Tele Stations in that regard. Would allow them general effectiveness... But no focused effectiveness...
Hadn't thought of that somehow.

The fringe parasite units can be balanced however you like. But at least make the normal parasites have a useful reclamation mechanic to justify the cost of picking them for a starter world or risking a potentially game ending advanced research laboratory choice.