Author Topic: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions  (Read 3831 times)

Offline x4000

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Hey guys,

I wanted to pick the community's brain a bit to find out what preferences are, etc.  Right now we're using BMT Micro, which is very popular amongst indie developers, but it seems to irritate a number of European customers.  I've done what I can to make that easier over the months, mainly changing it so that the exchange rate values are manually set (and thus fair), as well as recently changing the Fraud Protection to loose instead of strict.  These things have helped, but I still don't view these as the optimal scenario, necessarily.

Things I like about BMT:
1. Their royalty rate is excellent (90% to Arcen).
2. I can set up products, or adjust existing products, without having to sign a contract or deal with their staff.
3. They simply send a check at the end of every month, with no transaction fees (as with wire transfers), etc.
4. They are in the US, and actually even in the same state as me, so if legal action ever needed to be taken, it would be simpler comparatively speaking.
5. They handle distribution of purchased license keys without the need for further action from Arcen (a must).

On the downsides:
1. Their order form is more than a bit dated-looking.
2. It asks for a bunch of information that is scary, and that I have no idea why they need to know from customers.  And I can't change that.
3. Their exchange rates are not particularly fair in most cases, though I have been able to correct for that by manually setting the values.


So.  Anyone else have any favorite payment processors out there?  I can look into them, at least.  Indie sites and forums list a variety of payment processors, but BMT tends to win because of the royalty rate.  Honestly, I feel like that is even on the high side, I am not sure what they do that deserves even 10%.  Going with a partner like Paypal makes it so that the rate is more like 3% I think, which is close to the Merchant Rate for credit cards in general, so that's about as low as you go.  However, Paypal doesn't distribute license keys, or they didn't the last time that I looked.  And, people without paypal then tend to complain about it when paypal is the only purchase option (so something like BMT where paypal is an option, but not required, tends to be nice).

I've talked to Avangate in the past, but their royalty rate isn't quite as good, and they're located outside the country, which requires wire transfers, etc.  They might be a better option in general, but it seems like there ought to be an even better solution that is simple, affordable, and just handles it right.  Paypal would honestly be really attractive to me if they distributed license keys, for those reasons.

Anyway -- thoughts?
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 11:03:35 am »
I'd much prefer paypal, yes you pay fees for a business account and on reception... but for the costumer there is nothing better than paypal (also paying with paypal has absolutely no fees for the customer, exception might be the currency conversion (not sure right now if theres a fee if you convert for a purchase))

Most people have an paypal account from what i gather (i have never met anyone wanting a commission from me that didn't have a paypal account)

With paypal you can get around the VAT (sometimes 1/4th of the price)

Paypal is instant - within 4 seconds i could buy something, and get the serial in the order mail (via impulse for example)

Also, paypal supports Direct Debit payments (this is important for Europeans with a giro bank account)

Man, i sound like an advertising for them  :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 11:08:57 am by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Revenantus

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 11:30:46 am »
Firstly, I don't have any issue with BMT Micro at this point. When I purchased a key through them it was quick and painless, and now you're setting the exchange rate manually there's not much of a problem there.

Seconded, PayPal is great. I'm just looking over some of the open source e-commerce solutions, but I can't seem to find any with native support for selling software license keys. Zen-cart specifically is a pretty robust solution, though I've only ever set it up for selling physical products. There are some mods for selling license keys we could look at however.

Having said that, a full-blown shop would probably be overkill. Essentially, BMT Micro is taking 7% of the sale in exchange for emailing out the license key. I know from experience that PayPal's APIs are very programmer friendly, perhaps we should write our own script for mailing out license keys?

EDIT: We'd need an SSL certificate for the domain in order to have our own order form - I recommend RapidSSL.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 11:52:49 am by Revenantus »

Offline x4000

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 04:19:36 pm »
I really don't want to handle that in-house, for a couple of important reasons:

1. We'd have to store some customer data on our own servers (so that we can look up lost license keys when need be, etc), which is a liability issue that I really don't want to have.

2. The costs and complexity of the SSL, etc, plus whatever other legal ramifications there are to selling more directly via a payment processing gateway, rather than through an intermediary.

Right now our ecommerce partner is our direct client, and they are selling our products on our behalf. That's part of why they get a higher rate than a payment processor, is because they also take on a certain amount of legal responsibility and burden of risk, etc.  They also handle things like record retention (about which there are a variety of strict laws in different states of the US, and different countries outside the US), and generally keep up with all of that.

I'm normally a "build it myself" type of guy, almost to a fault sometimes, but this is one area that makes me very nervous.  So while I don't think that the added value that BMT provides is worth 7%, if that's the best option aside from taking on that risk and such ourselves, it is worth it to me at this point simply as the best of a lot of not-that-great options.

But, that said, I just don't know that much about a lot of the direct ecommerce setups, so there is potential there that I'm misunderstanding something and it would be fine. But these are my thoughts at the moment, knowing what I currently know.
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Offline Haagenti II

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 05:29:36 pm »
Of course its daylight robbery, but if there is no alternative, I wouldn't start building it.

Even after you have built it, how bad do you want do deal with "my PayPal account was hacked and someone used it to buy your key", or "I don't like the game so I'm asking Visa to revoke the transaction" or "Hereby we officially inform you that your Terms and Conditions are in violation of Hungarian law".


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Offline x4000

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 05:31:26 pm »
Even after you have built it, how bad do you want do deal with "my PayPal account was hacked and someone used it to buy your key", or "I don't like the game so I'm asking Visa to revoke the transaction" or "Hereby we officially inform you that your Terms and Conditions are in violation of Hungarian law".

That's exactly the sort of stuff I was referring to.
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Offline Haagenti II

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 05:49:01 pm »
My company ran a website for a few years on behalf of two dozen international governmental organizations (and we are not a website company). You quickly learn that the technical part is the easy par.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2009, 01:23:36 pm »
I think I understand why you don't mind paying 10%.
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Offline etgfrogs

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2009, 10:26:13 pm »
well...so far i've seen no problems wtih BMT and 10% isn't that much.

Offline x4000

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2009, 10:28:03 pm »
Yeah -- it just pays to do a "sanity check" every so often, since people occasionally complain about some aspect or another with BMT.  It sounds like it is probably the solution to stick with for the time being, at least, however.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline StealthArcher

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2009, 12:35:11 pm »
Yeah -- it just pays to do a "sanity check" every so often, since people occasionally complain about some aspect or another with BMT.  It sounds like it is probably the solution to stick with for the time being, at least, however.

At least until you befriend a good business lawyer.

Offline Haagenti II

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 05:39:49 pm »
I just received the following email:

Hello.  I have credited your card €2,42
towards your purchase of AI War: The Zenith
Remnant PREORDER.
Thank you
Barb
BMT

Actually, I have no clue on why Barb did this, but she's ok with me.
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Offline x4000

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2009, 05:53:53 pm »
Ah, okay -- great!  I have not announced this yet because of the people who had already preordered, but we decided to lower the price from $12.95 USD to $9.99 USD for the expansion.  All of the people who had previously bought the game are receiving a credit back for the difference (rather than just having to pay a higher price), but since I had not yet gotten confirmation from BMT that they could do this, I had not yet announced either thing.  Glad that worked!
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline cubanresourceful

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2009, 06:00:40 pm »
Awesome! The expansion is looking more attractive! Let me ask you a kind of dumb question. Will it be available on Steam when it's ready for release? And if we want to purchase the beta now, can we use it with the Steam version of the game? Thank you! :)

Offline Haagenti II

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Re: Payment Processor Choice (Ecommerce Partners) - Seeking Opinions
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2009, 06:09:01 pm »
FYI

€2,42 = $3.56, so I just made an additional 60 cents.

You may want to check who is paying for this additional 6% discount.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 06:10:32 pm by Haagenti II »
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