Author Topic: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding  (Read 1439 times)

Offline Fleet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« on: May 25, 2010, 02:15:51 pm »
Perhaps, the ARS could still gather knowledge from supplied planets, at a rate of 1/s? This would give players an alternative to the MkIII station, but is not superior as you have to take over a whole planet to get the thing in the first place.

A limiting mechanic, such as the ARS could only gather 4000k (or some number) total, might help, so there is still incentive to gather others to increase knowledge gathering potential.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 02:16:57 pm »
Why would I want to give them an easier alternative to the MkIII station?  Then they'd just go back to... exactly the situation as it stands now...  ;)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Fleet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 02:18:44 pm »
Hm, well the ARS functions a little differently then the standard Mk1/2 stations, yes? have to cap a planet to take, could potentially have a slower income. You can't build 50 of em on surpus resources. I don't think it would be replicating previous functionality all that much. So I don't think it has to be an easier alternative. It could cause increased reinforcments or whatever. But I think it could be an alternative.

If not, I support the new knowledge mechanics. Thanks for the work!

Offline Lancefighter

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,440
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 02:19:40 pm »
the one issue I see with that is that it becomes a 'must have', moreso than it is now.

if you could only kraid with ars, then really, why would you even build stationary knowledge stations?
fake-edit, yeah what x4000 said >.>

Well what if ars were something else useful? a lump sum of research would be nice to offset this (in the past an ars was a hardened research station with better research speed, now those two things are not needed at all as a unit)
Ideas? Suggestions? Concerns? Bugs to be squashed? Report them on the Mantis Bugtracker!

Author of the Dyson Project and the Spire Gambit

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 02:22:15 pm »
I thought about doing this with the ARS's since there's such a finite amount of them that the players would guard. them. with. their. lives. ;)

But in the end I don't think it would be a good idea, given the problems we've seen with mobile knowledge raiding.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Fleet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 02:23:34 pm »
The ARS would not be the sole source of knowledge raiding. The MkIII station still does that. But I think there should be at least one alternative to MkIII station for k-raids. Not easier. It may even be harder (through movement speed, low health, increased reinforcments).

EDIT: After reading Keiths response, as well as x4000, I'll drop this for now. Seems to be a concensus, so we can give this a try and see how it works in the next prerelease.

Offline keith.lamothe

  • Arcen Games Staff
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,505
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 02:27:43 pm »
Haha, a k-raiding golem could be funny one day, though that would radically alter the balance of a game where the players got them.  Knowledge is a very delicate thing, balance-wise.

And yea, lets see how the changes affect things, and see how it goes.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games? Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2010, 02:28:05 pm »
Well, keeping an ARS alive in enemy territory is pretty easy because of how hardened it is, so that makes it something of a super-researcher by nature.  That's why it was a problem when it could be used outside of supply when the other labs could not -- people abused the heck out of that.

The ARS really has one real function: being captured and granting you a new ship class.  The knowledge income it creates is incredibly secondary and just so that it isn't completely pointless after the initial capture.  In the past, these things weren't even mobile, but I made them mobile so that they would have some incremental benefit beyond just the ship class thing.

But really, I feel like they already have way enough of a central function, and I'm not looking to make them any more awesome than they already are.  It's not like people are not capturing ARSes or feeling like they are lacking in purpose! :)

When it comes to alternatives to the MkIII stations, I really don't see that as a priority.  It's a pretty broad mechanic as it is, and something that simply sets up a new class of encounters.  You want to K-raid an enemy planet, it says?  Fine, just be prepared to spend the time and resources required, and to build a beachhead.  But how you go about doing the beachhead, and what sort of conflict results, is where the variance comes in.

At any rate, that should be uncommon enough not to become monotonous in the first place.  And I'm feeling that if there are changes to be made, in terms of adding more variety on knowledge raiding, that should be something that would happen several weeks or months into the future, if it becomes obvious that there is some issue.  But I really don't expect such an issue if players are playing in any non-OCD manner (and you sort of reap what you sow if you go completely OCD on the game, same with the 60+ hour games, you know you're in for a grind and that must be the sort of game you're looking for).

EDIT: Well, I'm late to the party on my response, but I typed it out so here it is.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline Fleet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 02:35:16 pm »
You bring up a good point, in that the variety in defending the MKIII station makes up for the lack of alternative mechanics for k-raiding. I look forward to trying a diff 7 game with these settings. Those games have become too tedius.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 02:37:45 pm by Fleet »

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2010, 02:45:11 pm »
All good.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

rubikscube

  • Guest
Re: 3.051 and ARS k-raiding
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 06:27:03 pm »
still interesting, worthy to discuss about