Author Topic: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog  (Read 4795 times)

Offline Traveller

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2015, 07:02:56 pm »
I started playing real soon after it came out--I remember that the earliest versions didn't have FRD or even group-move, range was affected by shields, missing was a thing, and I think some triangle relationships were backwards.  Way more mandatory micromanagement all over the place.  Modern versions are WAY improved in that department, so even if you liked the old mechanics, you'll find older versions painful to play.  Have fun manually placing harvesters.

I've got a vague sense that energy was drastically changed early on, but I can't put my finger on how it changed.  I want to say that it worked more like other resources, or that metal/crystal worked more like energy (Total Annihilation esque?) but I'm probably conflating a bunch of different things.  I know that skipping a year really confused me when I came back.

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2015, 07:24:48 pm »
I've got a vague sense that energy was drastically changed early on, but I can't put my finger on how it changed.  I want to say that it worked more like other resources, or that metal/crystal worked more like energy (Total Annihilation esque?) but I'm probably conflating a bunch of different things.  I know that skipping a year really confused me when I came back.
Once, I tried AI War and saw there were multiple types of energy collector. The next time I tried it there were not. Probably not that early though, maybe 4.x or 5.x?

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2015, 07:45:21 pm »
My archaeological research suggests that once upon a time, instead of an Energy Collector, there were three marks of reactor, and I think that each consumed a certain amount of resources to generate a certain amount of power. i.e., Matter Converters.

Also, there was "efficiency" as a soft-cap.

Offline Aeson

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2015, 09:11:25 pm »
I've got a vague sense that energy was drastically changed early on, but I can't put my finger on how it changed.  I want to say that it worked more like other resources, or that metal/crystal worked more like energy (Total Annihilation esque?) but I'm probably conflating a bunch of different things.  I know that skipping a year really confused me when I came back.
Once, I tried AI War and saw there were multiple types of energy collector. The next time I tried it there were not. Probably not that early though, maybe 4.x or 5.x?
The Energy Collector and Matter Reactors model was introduced in version 5.40; according to the patch notes for v5.40, the energy reactor model had been in use for a bit more than 2 years before Energy Collectors and Matter Reactors replaced them, but I don't remember the systems that preceded the reactors. Traveller's 'vague sense that energy was drastically changed early on' probably comes from whatever preceded Energy Reactors; version 5.40 is not all that early in the game's history, and I don't really consider the Energy Reactors -> Energy Collector + Matter Reactors change to be all that drastic a change; it's more or less the same system, but with the first 150,000 non-command station energy per planet being free and without the stacking penalty on the reactors.

Offline NickAragua

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2015, 11:37:49 am »
Oh yeah, I remember that "shields" mechanic was pretty annoying. You'd point your ships at the enemy, they'd shoot and nothing would happen, other than that stupid green glow. That's because they weren't smart enough to close to a range where their weapons *would* be effective. It got replaced with the armor mechanic, which is a lot less controversial (although less spectacular in its results).

There was also a time when you didn't get a little "startup base" with all the energy structures and the force field when you started the game, you just had a command station. So, the first twenty minutes of every game would be exactly uniform across all games.

Raid starships used to be much more effective. To the point where my default action each game would be to tech up to MK III and build them all out, then go nuts blowing up guard posts. They still weren't that effective against large groups, but guard posts fell like wheat before the scythe. Can't do that as much any more, which makes me kind of sad. You can still use them, but only for shooting relatively undefended guard posts. And you can pretty much skip the MK I model, since it's not immune to missile any more.

Heh, there was a time when Arcen decided to start re-tooling some of the art, but dropped the project after changing a few art assets. Among other things, the space docks and command stations used to look different. So now you have this weird disconnect where some of the stationary facilities look like they're made out of concrete while the other ships still use graphics from Tyrian. Not that it matters much since you're probably going to be spending most of your time zoomed all the way out and looking at the ship icons instead.

Also, a final story, at some point, the games got to be so large that people's high end gaming rigs started choking on the large numbers of AI ships hanging out in the back of the galaxy. This is how carriers and barracks were introduced, to mitigate that.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2015, 11:42:02 am »
The Energy Collector and Matter Reactors model was introduced in version 5.40; according to the patch notes for v5.40, the energy reactor model had been in use for a bit more than 2 years before Energy Collectors and Matter Reactors replaced them, but I don't remember the systems that preceded the reactors. Traveller's 'vague sense that energy was drastically changed early on' probably comes from whatever preceded Energy Reactors; version 5.40 is not all that early in the game's history, and I don't really consider the Energy Reactors -> Energy Collector + Matter Reactors change to be all that drastic a change; it's more or less the same system, but with the first 150,000 non-command station energy per planet being free and without the stacking penalty on the reactors.

Energy has changed pretty much every major version.  When I started it was vastly different than the 3.0 era, which is vastly different than what it's been since 5.40.

And I think there was even one other model, but I don't remember when/what.

Offline Radiant Phoenix

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2015, 03:17:34 pm »
I think that the only major change to energy since 6.0 was capping matter converters.

Offline Cinth

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2015, 06:15:08 pm »
My signature is a story in and of itself.   8)
Quote from: keith.lamothe
Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Old Fogey Tales, or Reverse Changelog
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2015, 06:30:18 pm »
My archaeological research suggests that once upon a time, instead of an Energy Collector, there were three marks of reactor, and I think that each consumed a certain amount of resources to generate a certain amount of power. i.e., Matter Converters.

Also, there was "efficiency" as a soft-cap.

I actually had a little table in which I had calculated in what orders you'd have to build the various marks so as to get the highest overall efficiency.

Those were the times!

Oh yeah, I remember that "shields" mechanic was pretty annoying. You'd point your ships at the enemy, they'd shoot and nothing would happen, other than that stupid green glow. That's because they weren't smart enough to close to a range where their weapons *would* be effective. It got replaced with the armor mechanic, which is a lot less controversial (although less spectacular in its results).
Heh. I actually liked that range made a difference...but it wasn't really well-balanced.
But neither is the armour system, IMO.

There was also a time when you didn't get a little "startup base" with all the energy structures and the force field when you started the game, you just had a command station. So, the first twenty minutes of every game would be exactly uniform across all games.
Yep.
But back then you could also copy and paste groups of buildings, which was pretty neat for starting bases and building mine fields. Shame that never made it back in after the switch to Unity.

Raid starships used to be much more effective. To the point where my default action each game would be to tech up to MK III and build them all out, then go nuts blowing up guard posts. They still weren't that effective against large groups, but guard posts fell like wheat before the scythe. Can't do that as much any more, which makes me kind of sad. You can still use them, but only for shooting relatively undefended guard posts. And you can pretty much skip the MK I model, since it's not immune to missile any more.
True that. Raid starships were immensely useful, and always the first to get an upgrade. Nowadays I barely ever use the fragile little buggers...

Heh, there was a time when Arcen decided to start re-tooling some of the art, but dropped the project after changing a few art assets. Among other things, the space docks and command stations used to look different. So now you have this weird disconnect where some of the stationary facilities look like they're made out of concrete while the other ships still use graphics from Tyrian. Not that it matters much since you're probably going to be spending most of your time zoomed all the way out and looking at the ship icons instead.
Hah. I hear you! I actually like the art on many of the AI structures, so I often zoom in to check things out...and the styles just don't match. At all  :D
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 06:34:54 pm by Shrugging Khan »
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