Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VIII)

[Draco18s]

That are slower than 75% of all other ships.  Seriously, they're slower than frigates

Factual Error Detected.  Initiate Reeducation Protocols.

I may have missed that change.
Hm.

[Aeson]

the Raptors being one of my absolute FAVORITE units

I also like the Raptors very much. Perhaps they aren't the most effective units, but they are fun, and make a reasonable rapid response force, raiding fighter group, or anything else where speed is valuable.


*Nomination: Zenith Power Generator

Right now it's an Energy Collector and a Matter Converter in terms of energy output, but it'll usually tank my economy for an hour or more while it's building. Unless I can't afford the extra 20 AIP, I'd sooner take an extra planet and put down the energy collector. However, I also almost exclusively play with Fallen Spire on, with AI difficulties ranging from 5 to 7 depending on how much of a challenge I want, so taking additional planets isn't that much of a concern for me.

[keith.lamothe]

That are slower than 75% of all other ships.  Seriously, they're slower than frigates

Factual Error Detected.  Initiate Reeducation Protocols.

I may have missed that change.
Hm.

The cutlass actually won the first of the "Worst Ship Ever" polls (as noted in the OP of this thread, incidentally).  The actual changes were in 5.026 on February 15th of this year:

** Base Health from 7000*mk => 10500*mk.  This puts them at the top of the target fleet ship range with 30M*mk cap-health (Armor Ships and Shield Bearers were the only other ones up there before this).
** Base Speed from 16 => 54.  So from slower than a fighter to slightly faster than an etherjet.
** Base Metal/Crystal cost from 200/50 => 30/30.  Now the same price as infiltrators, a bit lower than tele-raiders, etc.
** Base Energy use from 100 => 20.

[KDR_11k]

*Nomination: Zenith Power Generator

Right now it's an Energy Collector and a Matter Converter in terms of energy output, but it'll usually tank my economy for an hour or more while it's building. Unless I can't afford the extra 20 AIP, I'd sooner take an extra planet and put down the energy collector. However, I also almost exclusively play with Fallen Spire on, with AI difficulties ranging from 5 to 7 depending on how much of a challenge I want, so taking additional planets isn't that much of a concern for me.

It's a capturable, building those yourself is always insanely overpriced. They're balanced to be stolen from the AI.

[Kahuna]

the Raptors being one of my absolute FAVORITE units

I also like the Raptors very much.

I like Raptors too and I'd like to use them. Unfortunately they suck. I also like Deflector Drones but they suck too

Also I forgot to add Zenith Trader on my list. Everything the Traders sell are way too expensive.

[Draco18s]

The cutlass actually won the first of the "Worst Ship Ever" polls (as noted in the OP of this thread, incidentally).  The actual changes were in 5.026 on February 15th of this year:

Ah, I did miss that, or not remember. *Salute*

[Aeson]

It's a capturable, building those yourself is always insanely overpriced. They're balanced to be stolen from the AI.

I have rarely ever seen one on an AI planet that is within a range where it would be reasonable to capture it early enough in the game to be worth having. Probably luck of the draw, but that's what I've seen of it - if I want one, I have to build it for myself. On top of that, protecting it in a game with Fallen Spire on can be quite challenging unless it also happens to be somewhere you can put a Spire City (or in an area you can block off with one), and it at least used to cause larger waves to hit the world it was on (haven't checked in a while to see if this was still the case, though).

[Lancefighter]

I recently did (am in the middle of) an 8/8 game, about 4 hours in.
I have not left my homeworld yet. I have not built a single ship from the starship/docks other than scouts, but I do have many many turrets. I have 10 aip.
I have a spire battleship, and 100 assorted nebula fleetships. I can literally walk to any point on the map, do whatever I want, and walk home with basically no losses (ai homeworlds sadly dont count)

I have, and heres the kicker - Over 600 thousand FREE ENERGY.

Why exactly do I need to aim for a zpg?

[keith.lamothe]

I recently did (am in the middle of) an 8/8 game, about 4 hours in.
I have not left my homeworld yet. I have not built a single ship from the starship/docks other than scouts, but I do have many many turrets. I have 10 aip.
I have a spire battleship, and 100 assorted nebula fleetships. I can literally walk to any point on the map, do whatever I want, and walk home with basically no losses (ai homeworlds sadly dont count)

I have, and heres the kicker - Over 600 thousand FREE ENERGY.

Why exactly do I need to aim for a zpg?

If you're playing champions like that, the answer is probably: you don't   Next question.

On the locations, Aeson, that is very up to the RNG.  In my current game I think I had 2 within 3-4 hops.

[Lancefighter]

Well no - Its more or less the same no matter how I end up playing. I never find myself in a situation where a zpg seems like a good thing

[Aeson]

On the locations, Aeson, that is very up to the RNG.  In my current game I think I had 2 within 3-4 hops.

Alright. It's just that before the energy changes, I'd consider building one and taking the economic hit, or going off to find one. Now, though, they just aren't that tempting when I can just conquer a world to get about the same effect as building one, and I can't think of a time I've ever gone "Wow, I really need an extra 200,000 energy on top of the 150,000 free energy I get off of an energy collector, plus whatever my command station happens to provide" when I can't choose where the energy source is and would need to rearrange my defenses to give it a decent chance at surviving an exo wave (though I did almost have a heart attack when I read the description of some broken golem or other and saw that it wanted 600,000 energy or something like that ... until I saw it was the energy requirement for Golems (Medium) and I wasn't playing Golems (Medium) - if I had been playing Golems (Medium), that would have been a time when I'd go in for taking a Zenith Power Generator).

[Coppermantis]

In my current game I'm tripping over ZPGs. Including trader purchases, I've had about six of them. A couple got asploded, but there are more that I can take. That's the RNG for you. 

[chemical_art]

Perhaps cutlasses need a small speed buff. They were slower then fighters to begin with, and now are decisively slower then them since fighters got a speed buff.

[TechSY730]

Yea, a small buff to cutlasses speed would do it good.

Also, I have argued in previous threads that the current >cap reproduce penalty for Z viral shreddders is a bit too harsh currently.

For the energy thing, in my game, I am actually quite greatful for my ZPG. Granted, I am using lots of mini-forts, starships, and trader goodies. If you are using a more conservative build, then yea, I can see that energy would be overpowered. So yea, I guess the current energy system is OP, as you really only start worrying about it once you get to near max cap on dang near everything (except for single HW non-coop, before you take any planets, you will start hittin energy limitations before then). It seems like the energy pressure should start happening before that, even with several planets captured.

[KDR_11k]

*Nomination: Drone bays for the champion

These things look neat but in practice they're at best decoy launchers, at worst feeding troughs for viral ships. While they can build up a decent damage output if they get to deploy the maximum number of drones they rarely ever manage that because those drones get shot to pieces really fast. The fighter and bomber drones get one shot off, the melee drones don't get even that (plus the melee drones aren't even faster than the champion, i.e. in nebulas they are slower than any enemy).