Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VIII)

[keith.lamothe]

You know Adv. Factories are made out of paper...

They had to cut corners somewhere to stay within budget.

[chemical_art]

I haven't seen them for a while, but I remember there was another stealth guard post that seemed to have no problems.

[Atomikkrab]

Deflector Drone.


For something not mobile, Orbital Mass driver, it doesn't have the HP or damage to be worth the cost.

[Volatar]

For something not mobile, Orbital Mass driver, it doesn't have the HP or damage to be worth the cost.

Yeah, they cost 3.6mil M+C, have 1.8mil hp (I lost one to a single siege SS recently), and hit for 900k every 10 seconds, or 90k dps.

In comparison, a single Spire Frigate:

Costs 88k M+C, has 5mil hp, and hits for 2mil every 8 seconds, or 250k dps.

Even with the vast power difference between a FS campaign and a normal one, that's far too weak. You can rescue just the refugee ship for the four spire frigates and have no Exo's, and have 11 times the firepower, and 11 times the hp for a tenth the cost. The tradeoff? You lose range, but gain mobility.

I think those things need a buff.

[Cinth]

All the Trader's toys are over priced.

It's supposed to be that way.

[Draco18s]

*Nomination: Etherjet Tractor

Unless Keith already made the change that was made in another thread.
As a selection-group ship they just don't work.  A single spire tractor platform is about a dozen times more useful than an entire cap of etherjets (in player hands).

[Faulty Logic]

Nomination: Regen golem; virtually useless compared to others, certainly not worth 25 AIP.

Nomination: high-cap ships in general; increase their cap by 50% or so, their goal is to overwhelm with numbers.

Nomination: Neinzul Enclave IV; 14000 k? 20000 total? Split into two techs.

Nomination: lightning/armored warheads; immune to immune to aoe, a la the martyr

Nomination: high mark logistics stations

Nomination: nuclear warheads; they used to instantly kill an entire wave, remove carrier nuclear immunity.

[Draco18s]

Nomination: Regen golem; virtually useless compared to others, certainly not worth 25 AIP.

Agreed.  The regen golem for me has never been worth the cost.  And the last time I compared it, I was looking at the M+C cost only (it cost four times the resources to repair the golem than it did to just rebuild your units, for a minor numeric advantage).

Nomination: Neinzul Enclave IV; 14000 k? 20000 total? Split into two techs.

While I think everyone agrees, the splitting isn't exactly doable code-wise, as I understand it.

Nomination: high-cap ships in general; increase their cap by 50% or so, their goal is to overwhelm with numbers.Nomination: lightning/armored warheads; immune to immune to aoe, a la the martyr
Nomination: high mark logistics stations

General agreement.

[Wanderer]

* Nomination: Ultra-High Cap ships.  For three reasons.
1) They break Eyes.
2) Unless armor is removed they don't have enough punch.
3) Damage decay rate is phenomenal.

Anti-Nomination: Regen Golems
I wouldn't mind seeing these buffed but in a Hard or Easy game they're a godsend to keep forces on planet, and have a decent bite in their own right.  They're expensive to repair but it's a lot better than refleeting.

* Nomination: Fabs and Mk IV Factories
I personally don't think they really need a buff per-se, but what you need for these is a bit of time.  Crossing the universe can take a while occassionally.  What I'd live is a way to build an 'emergency cloaking generator' for these.  Say, 15 minutes max.  What it'd do is on CC loss (or maybe enemy entry to planet past a firepower threshold) is give you a 15 minute cloak (one shot) on the fact/fab.  It won't save it if you can't defend it, but it would buy you some time when that random exo hangs a left at Albequerque.

* Nomination: HFF
These are nearly pointless, they're just extra caps of standard FFs that die to armor piercing and don't beef up modular ships.

[Wingflier]

Nomination: Regen golem; virtually useless compared to others, certainly not worth 25 AIP.

Agreed, please please fix this.

[zoutzakje]

I only got one nomination which I will copy from the other post.

*Nomination*: Wormhole Guard Posts

It doesn't happen often that you need to kill them, but it's often a long and boring grind when you do.
I'm thinking of having them serve the same purpose as they do now (reinforce wormholes), but then with about 1/4 of it's current hp, big guns on it, and only attacking you when you attack them (on higher difs the attacked Wormhole Guard Post could trigger the one next to it to attack you as well). You want that freeway road? Get ready for some resistance then.

[TechSY730]

* Nomination: Ultra-High Cap ships.  For three reasons.
1) They break Eyes.

Unless AI eyes start counting firepower based on firepower ratios (which total planetary freeing already does, making this partially redundant) or a scaled count (it still uses ship count : ship count ratios, but the ship count would be a weighted sum, with lower cap ship counting more than higher cap ships)
I don't mind this too much, as I know this going in ahead of time when picking high cap stuff, and I don't think its a big deal if some things can counter high cap ships pretty well due to their mechanics.

2) Unless armor is removed they don't have enough punch.

Aside from armor rotters (like mini-pods), you are right. I am hoping that the armor revamp/removal/rebalance/whatever is chosen to do with it is done, this will be dealt with.

3) Damage decay rate is phenomenal.

Now this, I can agree with.
For whatever reason, in the current game balance, DPS lost due to ships being lost (which impacts high cap ships more) tends to be a greater factor than DPS lost due to overkill (which impacts low cap ships more). Because of this, high cap ships generally fair worse in extended combat, even if cap DPSs and cap healths are the same. This is why giving higher cap ships more cap health (either by more health per unit, more cap, or some of both) may be helpful. I would argue that 50% increased cap health (for the highest end) is too much, something like an extra 20% or 25% for the highest end seems closer (scaling with cap of course).
A similar, inverse argument can be made for lower cap ships. However, because they do have a reduction in DPS effect (overkill) of their own, it shouldn't be quite the same in the other direction in reduction. So only, I would say, 10% to 15% less cap health for the lowest end of caps (again, scaling with cap). (100% cap health scaling is the adjustment for "normal" capped ships, ships with the same cap as the triangle)


Also would like to second the Orbital Mass Driver nomination. Doesn't really have enough DPS to threaten what they are supposed to threaten anymore to a reasonable degree.


Also

*Nomination: Superfortress
 While these things do indeed pack a punch and take quite a bit of punishment, it isn't as much as what is in effect a Mk. V fortress would imply it should have. The 300k energy price tag certainly does not help with this either. This could be buffed up even more to meet the standards implied by Mk. progression growth, or it could be reimagined. For example, someone suggested making it a buffed version of the human modular fortress, that could work. (I'm not complaining about the M+C price, as noted, the prices are supposed to be insane)

[Kahuna]

*Nomination: Hardened forcefields

MarkI Bombers vs MarkI Force Field
MarkI Force Field destroyed in: 20,000,000/(78,400*6)=42,5s

MarkI Bombers vs MarkI Hardened Force Field
MarkI Hardened Force Field destroyed in: 5,000,000/((78,400*6)*0,2)=53s

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Lancefighter]

No, those numbers are about as expected - The problem is just that I dont actually see them as enough of a use, or having a particular niche perhaps. Additionally, I amnot sure how well they actually fare against your average plasma starship thing. I feel like if something actually is strong enough to get through the armor, they become incredibly irrelevant comparatively.

its just.. How often do you actually use them? Personally, I never use them. My reason is somewhat tangential to their actual strength however - I mainly dont use them because they dont synergize with the fallen spire plot.

Do people other than me actually unlock them?

I think I proposed at one point to give them a niche - They are smaller or whatever, but nullify all aoe damage under them. Maybe even prevent forcefield immunity from hitting things under it. Something that regular forcefields just cant do.

[LordSloth]

Oddly enough, Regenerator golems are my Favorite golems.

They're great support for a Fallen Spire campaign, they team up wonderfully on defense with micro parasites,  making anti-armor and other fragile/suicidal units more viable on an offensive (less important with enclave starships now that I think about it...)

Difficulty 7 with auto AIP, mind you. Not the greatest golem, but as they currently are, make some strategies a lot more fun. Worst ship ever? Nope. Issues being competitive? Maybe.

...I'd kind of like to see "Hardened" force fields have immunity to EMP, or some other niche and mild nerf.