Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VII)

[Hearteater]

Not the worst ship, not really even the worst name, but it's a little confusing so maybe the Bomber Starship could get a name upgrade to Heavy Bomber Starship?

[chemical_art]

Oh wait, spire archives exist.

They were so useless, I forgot!

[TechSY730]

I think that
a) allowing them to seed 1,2, or possibly even 3 more hops even further out from the homeworld, and b) reduce their AIP on death cost will help out quite a bit.

Maybe even give them a chance to seed on another planet that is very distant from human homeworlds, and from other AI homeworld (sort of like if the game was trying to find a place to seed a third AI homeworld). This way, you would have at least some incentive to try to go to a distant, out of the way portion of the galaxy. Or possibly increase the number of them per game to three, have to two near the homeworld be allowed to spawn 1-3 more hops out, and one spawned on that distant planet.

[sarudak]

I think the big problem with Spire archives is that by the time I've taken a planet adjacent to the AI homeworld I don't really have the time to wait for the really really slow K gathering of the spire archive.

[Coppermantis]

Do Mirrors still reflect Fortress shots? If no, then I nominate mirrors.

And speaking of golems,

I'm not sure I feel all the Golems need so much of a nerf (except Botnet...he's insane) as I'd like the Exo waves to really be a bit more meaningful to counteract them.  If Exos got noticeable tougher each time you activated a Golem, and kept that bonus even if you lost the golem, that might help.  But even base Exo strength might need to go up.  And/or, maybe Golems - Hard should merge in some of the Golems - Medium energy cost.

I'll just link this Mantis issue I posted: 0006446: Extreme Golems/Spirecraft

[Diazo]

Mirrors technically can reflect fortress shots as they are the Energy Wave ammo type.

The problem is that Mirrors can only reflect attacks within their own attack range and as the fortress massively outranges them the mirrors tend to die without reflecting anything.

D.

[TechSY730]

Mirrors technically can reflect fortress shots as they are the Energy Wave ammo type.

The problem is that Mirrors can only reflect attacks within their own attack range and as the fortress massively outranges them the mirrors tend to die without reflecting anything.

D.

I wouldn't mind them getting a range buff, if only so they can have a better chance to reflect something before dieing.

[orzelek]

Mirrors technically can reflect fortress shots as they are the Energy Wave ammo type.

The problem is that Mirrors can only reflect attacks within their own attack range and as the fortress massively outranges them the mirrors tend to die without reflecting anything.

D.

I wouldn't mind them getting a range buff, if only so they can have a better chance to reflect something before dieing.

I haven't played recently but last time I had mirrors their role was a damage magnet. Since damage on them is very high they are getting priority targeted and they die instead of your other ships. As a bonus they get to reflect some of that damage onto attackers. Quite often I had most of them die before other ships had significant losses. I'm not sure if this still holds true...

[Faulty Logic]

Zenith Polarizers: even against the targets they are supposed to be good at, I would rather have bombers.
Neinzul Enclave Mk IV: (never worth the k).
Core Missile Posts: Make them shoot something like mkI lightning warheads.
Core Electric posts: Up the pain.
Spire Archives: One hop further: so you still have to put a core on alert.
Zenith and Spire Starships: more armor.
High-mark turrets: almost never worth buying, even with the new drones.
Human home forcefields: immune to ff immunity: no more restarts because of a lone eyebot or raid starship. These would still be threats to other irreplaceable structures, but not lose you the game. Also should be stronger than a mkI normal forcefield. 

[Kahuna]

Zenith Polarizers: even against the targets they are supposed to be good at, I would rather have bombers.
Neinzul Enclave Mk IV: (never worth the k).
Core Missile Posts: Make them shoot something like mkI lightning warheads.
Core Electric posts: Up the pain.
Spire Archives: One hop further: so you still have to put a core on alert.
Zenith and Spire Starships: more armor.
High-mark turrets: almost never worth buying, even with the new drones.
Human home forcefields: immune to ff immunity: no more restarts because of a lone eyebot or raid starship. These would still be threats to other irreplaceable structures, but not lose you the game. Also should be stronger than a mkI normal forcefield.

Ohh these are good!

[TechSY730]

Zenith Polarizers: even against the targets they are supposed to be good at, I would rather have bombers.

Not too long ago, polarizers received a pretty nifty buff. Are you saying that they are still underwhelming?

Neinzul Enclave Mk IV: (never worth the k).

Well, how much is a rebuildable Mk. IV factory worth to you?
Though people were talking about separating the Mk. IV factory nature from the Mk. IV enclave (aka, let Mk. IV enclaves build Mk. IV ships only if there is a Mk. IV factory somewhere under player ownership), and make a new Mk. V enclave that has the same stats but can build Mk. IV ships without a Mk. IV factory in player ownership. Then give Mk. IV enclaves a knowledge cost in line with the progression of knowledge costs, and shift the hyper expensive knowledge cost to the Mk. V.

Core Missile Posts: Make them shoot something like mkI lightning warheads.
Core Electric posts: Up the pain.

Not sure if an AOE impact would be appropriate for a core missile post (though that would be nice for a new type of core guard post), but I would agree that both of these could stand to deal more pain.

High-mark turrets: almost never worth buying, even with the new drones.

I would agree. Similar complaints with the Mk. II and above military starships, except starting at Mk. III instead of Mk. II. (Except for Mk. II turrets that have a 3k unlock cost. Could turret unlock costs be made less disparate, though not nessecarily the same?)
I think the solution is similar, a balance pass on their knowledge costs. (IMO, their other stats are fine)

Human home forcefields: immune to ff immunity: no more restarts because of a lone eyebot or raid starship. These would still be threats to other irreplaceable structures, but not lose you the game. Also should be stronger than a mkI normal forcefield.

Well, if we get a forcefield that protects against even FF immunity, so should the AIs for their homeworlds.

[Toranth]

Spire Archives: One hop further: so you still have to put a core on alert.

Lots of people complain about these, and I will contribute my voice as well.  Core worlds are too close to the homeworlds to capture something on - By the time you can take advantage of whatever you capture, the AI has pumped to homeworld up to near invincible levels.  By the time I'm ready to move on a core world, it's endgame, and I'm ready to take the homeworld itself.  And since each homeworld features a impossible-to-remove warp wormhole, you cannot protect the Archive by tating the homeworld, either.  Finally, even after you've gathered all the extra Knowledge you can get, you're still left with this huge, fragile, +80 AIP trap that you still need to protect.
Even putting it on a next-to-core world would be too close for me.  I would never do bother to take it in anything but a sandbox-type game.

What I would suggest is making them less frequent, and just dropping them randomly somewhere.  If you find one two hops from your starting homeworld, lucky you.  It's like finding 3 ARSs with 4 hops in a 120 system game.  On the other hand, if your game has none, or if the nearest Archive is next to 4 core worlds, that's just too bad for you.

And on a slight off-topic about the Archives:  Last time I actually tried to use one, I noticed that it added +1K/sec over what my science labs were gathering, but as soon as the system hit 3000K gathered, the science labs turned off, and only the Archive could continue to gather that last 6000K... at the rate of 1K/sec.  Is that a bug, or by design?

Human home forcefields: immune to ff immunity: no more restarts because of a lone eyebot or raid starship. These would still be threats to other irreplaceable structures, but not lose you the game. Also should be stronger than a mkI normal forcefield.

Well, if we get a forcefield that protects against even FF immunity, so should the AIs for their homeworlds.

They have one.  In fact, they have two, both of which are superior - First, the CSGs, and second, the Core Guardposts themselves.
Mostly, I agree because a random FF immune thingy taking out my Home Command Center doesn't make me feel like I've lost - It just annoys me and makes me reload an earlier save.

[keith.lamothe]

Poll is up