Author Topic: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)  (Read 8018 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« on: July 08, 2012, 11:11:44 PM »
Ok, wow, been like 3 months since I did the nominations for the last poll.  AVWW's kept us busy, for sure ;)  Also, it took about this long to actually do something about all the did-really-well's from last poll.

So: what most needs a buff?  Anything human-usable is fair-game this time around, though I'm strongly tempted to not allow more than 2 votes on the actual poll when that comes (but feel free to nominate however many, if you feel the need)

For reference, previous winners (in the sense that they got buffs as a result) :
I - Vorticular Cutlass
II - Acid Sprayer
III - IRE, Space Plane, Vampire Claw
IV - Harvester Exo-Shield, Harvester, Warp Jammer Command Station, Mobile Repair Station
V - Neinzul Enclave Starship (buffs, can now build drones), Armored Warhead, Manufactories, Teleport Battlestation, Riot MkIII (new modules)
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 11:34:44 PM »
Spire Armor Rotter.  Does below average damage to a single target, and armor isn't really that big of a problem. 
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 12:45:32 AM »
Am I allowed to nominate a concept?  Zenith Caches.  Too blasted expensive in AIP for disposable ships.

Hmmm... let's see... hmmm.  My concern isn't as much that they're weak in player hands but there's not a lot of ships I'd like to be yet more strengthened in the AI's.

Have to think about it...
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 01:09:47 AM »
I will second the Spire Armor Rotter nomination. The armor rotting can be useful, but it needs decent damage as well, which right now it does not have.

Also, I would like to nominate teleport raiders (as opposed to the other major teleporting fleet ship, teleport battlestations, which received a buff pretty recently).

Also, armor boosters. A simple change can make them useful until the armor rebalance/tweaking/mechanic adjusting/whatever happens to armor. Give them a minimum armor to boost to. Due to the large number of ships with 0 armor, a multiplier with no minimum isn't all that great.

And finally, captive human settlements. Too much AIP risk for too little income. Now, I know these things are supposed to be more bad than good strategically, but as they are right now, it seems a bit too far in the "bad" direction.


I am debating about ether-jet tractors, as their cap heath is absolutely horrid. But I wouldn't consider it a worst ship compared to some of the others I can think of.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 01:24:13 AM »
Ooh, and honorable mention goes to youngling commandos. Not so much because they aren't useful, but because they aren't useful at what their description states they are. Their description says that they are effective against large defenses, but they do not have any bonus against structural, turret, or command-grade. In other words, they aren't effective against defenses. Now they do have a heavy and ultra-heavy bonus (and close-combat, light, and swarmer too for the curious), so maybe a description change is in order. (I may want to put this in a new mantis post actually)

Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 02:39:08 AM »
I will second the Spire Armor Rotter nomination. The armor rotting can be useful, but it needs decent damage as well, which right now it does not have.

Also, I would like to nominate teleport raiders (as opposed to the other major teleporting fleet ship, teleport battlestations, which received a buff pretty recently).

Also, armor boosters. A simple change can make them useful until the armor rebalance/tweaking/mechanic adjusting/whatever happens to armor. Give them a minimum armor to boost to. Due to the large number of ships with 0 armor, a multiplier with no minimum isn't all that great.

And finally, captive human settlements. Too much AIP risk for too little income. Now, I know these things are supposed to be more bad than good strategically, but as they are right now, it seems a bit too far in the "bad" direction.


I am debating about ether-jet tractors, as their cap heath is absolutely horrid. But I wouldn't consider it a worst ship compared to some of the others I can think of.

Armor just still isn't very important. There's nothing out there that really has armor that makes a difference. I've never noticed it even existing, ever. Thus Armor Rotters and Boosters have a minimal impact on gameplay.

Etherjets and Settlements are fine are fine I think. Maybe a small nerf on the Settlement AIP cost on destruction.


I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline PokerChen

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 04:50:16 AM »
I wonder if it's time to start pushing for an armor rethink (again), maybe ahead of the energy rethink in the other thread. Which one feels more in need of reworking?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 04:54:14 AM by zharmad »

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 05:10:25 AM »
Armor seems to not be making enough difference, that is true. However, you must realize that if we start boosting armor a lot, someone without any way of countering said armor is going to have a hell to get anywhere.
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Offline Bognor

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 06:16:18 AM »
Careful, though.  Armor makes a big difference when low-mark ships attack higher mark ships.  Think of the situations when that's likely to occur - early attacks on Mark IV planets bordering your homeworld... Exowaves... Attacks against AI core planets and homeworlds... Triggered Core Raid Engines and Cross Planet Attack Guard Posts... You've got many of the most difficult scenarios in the game there.  I think it's ok if armor is a relatively minor consideration most of the time, but something players would do well to consider carefully in the toughest battles.
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 06:34:34 AM »
I wonder if it's time to start pushing for an armor rethink (again), maybe ahead of the energy rethink in the other thread. Which one feels more in need of reworking?

I think that's full bore development testing to get right, instead of just tossing around an idea that replaces one concept with another similar one.  With the depth of the one thread that went into it, I think it just needs to get shelved until AI War ends up on the priority list again and severe balance testing can occur.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 09:16:26 AM »
If the armor system has a complete rework, then the entire list of bonus ships (and other major mechanics) will probably need a complete overhaul, so I agree we should wait until AI War becomes a priority again.

Which I hope is soon!  I haven't seen Chris post in this section for months.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 09:30:57 AM »
I'm actually inclined to bite into the armor problem in the coming month, but we'll see.  For now I'd say armor-related bonus ships are fair game for this poll; for instance I could just buff the armor rotter to be just a hair shy of a really good combat ship and the fact that its bonus is incredibly situational won't really hurt it much; if/when armor rotting gets around to meaning something in the general case, another rebalance can be done for them.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 09:37:11 AM »
Are we allowed to nominate AI only ships for this poll? :P


About the armor thing (which is a bit off topic), would it be so bad to let the AI get AI versions of the hardened forcefields? Coming across one of those would make me care about armor. ;)

Armor rotting may be not so great an effect right now (due to armor being on average (what was it?) 1.2 orders of magnitude below average damage), but it can be very helpful. Hardened forcefields, armored golems, raid starships, and low Mk vs high Mk fights being some cases where armor starts becoming noticible. Yes, those are the exception, rather than the rule, but still important enough cases to not discount armor entirely.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 09:45:30 AM by TechSY730 »

Offline Minotaar

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 09:48:21 AM »
Nominate Decloaker and Infiltrator.

Also, when's the Best Ship of All TIme poll happening?  ;)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (VI)
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2012, 09:54:38 AM »
Also, when's the Best Ship of All TIme poll happening?  ;)
I keep wanting to do that, but I'm expecting a very different "vibe" when the point is to nerf stuff ;)

I'll probably run a worst-ship and a best-ship at the same time, next time around.
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