Nominations for Worst Ship Ever (IV)

[TechSY730]

I really dont understand why higher tier harversters were created to start with.

More options to boost your economy.

IIRC, higher harvester tiers were introduced before higher tier econ stations were introduced. As such, these two lines were never compared to each other when their stats were decided upon.

Eh, Well, Aside from slightly altered strengths and weaknesses (Or rather, Stats), Still basically the same thing. Same useage, Same limitations (No wormhole, no repair in combat (Which is still a good idea), painfully slow for anything aside from max-building coverage micro) I really think that they should have something to different them from normal shields, aside from slightly altered stats.

Well, when they were first introduced, they didn't shrink their forcefield radius as they took damage. That certainly gave them extra use, but done strictly (same radius from 100% to 1HP), it turned out to hurt durability.
Maybe if that mechanic is brought back, but with a forcefield radius reduction in size at really low HPs, (like start shrinking at 20%, rather than starting to shrink at the normal 100% - 1HP), that could work and differentiate the two lines.

Also, a mechanic similar to that would be great for Spirecraft forcefield bearers, though with an added minimum radius on top of that.

[Diazo]

The higher mark harvesters used to be the only way to increase your resource income before the multiple command stations were implemented.

Now that the economic command stations exist, the importance of harvesters has dropped significantly.

That's one of the biggest reasons the entire economic model needs a revisit, but such a thing is too big to do in a balance patch so it's for well in the future if it happens.

D.

edit: ninja'd.

[Nodor]

Things I don't buy/select: (They may be awesome.. but not in my hands)

Ships:
Autocannon Minipods
Eye Bots
Raptors
Infiltrators
Raiders
Plane
Deflecter Drone
Spider Bot
Laser Gatling
Teleport Station
Teleport Raiders
Tachyon Microfighter


The recent increases in number of shots a substantial number of units have limits the effectiveness of the small ships - and the deflector drones die too fast.


Knowledge Spend:
Flagship Line of Starships - since the Zenith nerf + the boost nerf = expensive for no gain.
Cloaker Starships
Warp Jammers.
Harvester exo-shield
Counter-Missile Turrets
Tachyon Beam Emitter/Stealth Tachyon Beam Emitter. (Decloaker/Military Command station have better range.)

My - probably useless opinions:
Something besides Raid Starships needs immunity to Blade Attacks.  Blade Spawners remain the primary cause of needing to micro.
Given the number of guardians/guardposts immune to fusion cutters, all ships with that weapon should be considered primarily defensive or ignored.
The Sentinel Frigate in the patch notes has 31K damage base, but my last round of games was at a 62K base.  MY vampire claw numbers are also different.. not sure if I am missing a multiplier. 

[Wanderer]

@Nodor:

Ships:
Autocannon Minipods - Semi-useful
Eye Bots - Powerful Raider
Raptors - You're doin' it wrong
Infiltrators - Agreed
Raiders - Agreed
Plane - Agreed
Deflecter Drone - Think High ROF MLRS
Spider Bot - Agreed
Laser Gatling - Swarm smack/cannon fodder
Teleport Station - Agreed
Teleport Raiders - Agreed
Tachyon Microfighter - Laser Gatling with no teeth.

[TechSY730]

So people STILL think that space planes and spider bots are underpowered, even after their buffs?

Yea, infiltrators and the two non-spire teleporting fleet ships have been tossed around before for nomination. I would nominate these as well.

[chemical_art]

I view all the telelporting ships with disdain. Too squishy, too few.

Minipods, eyebots,  inflatrators suck too.

[Diazo]

The Sentinel Frigate in the patch notes has 31K damage base, but my last round of games was at a 62K base.  MY vampire claw numbers are also different.. not sure if I am missing a multiplier.

Do you play on normal? There is a 2x multiplyer on normal to all the base stats.

Originally, there was no caps setting option, High Caps was what you played at. Then because that many ships on the screen (Fighter cap of 198) the other caps options were added to help performance issues.

However, all the stats and back end info on the ships in the code is still done at high caps, then multiplied out by the cap modifier.

D.

[Nodor]

The Sentinel Frigate in the patch notes has 31K damage base, but my last round of games was at a 62K base.  MY vampire claw numbers are also different.. not sure if I am missing a multiplier.

Do you play on normal? There is a 2x multiplyer on normal to all the base stats.

Originally, there was no caps setting option, High Caps was what you played at. Then because that many ships on the screen (Fighter cap of 198) the other caps options were added to help performance issues.

However, all the stats and back end info on the ships in the code is still done at high caps, then multiplied out by the cap modifier.

D.

I am indeed missing that "Normal" multiplier.    Thank you.

[Hearteater]

The listed stats are also for Epic speed, which affects a few other things as well.  Unit speed being a major one if I recall correctly.

[Catma]

Do you play on normal? There is a 2x multiplyer on normal to all the base stats.

So... normal is NOT normal, then... huh. Now I feel like I should play on high, but my CPU is trash.

I don't use the Neinzul starships because it's not really my playstyle, but it sounds like they need help. I don't use exoshields because they're bad.

Out of things that I use, I used to build mines and mobile repair stations. I've stopped; mines feel like they don't do anything(absolutely no evidence or numbers to back that up), and MRS cost WAY too much K.

[keith.lamothe]

Do you play on normal? There is a 2x multiplyer on normal to all the base stats.

So... normal is NOT normal, then... huh. Now I feel like I should play on high, but my CPU is trash.

Normal is much less likely to run into out-of-memory errors   Regardless of machine, since the heap can't get much bigger than 800MB regardless of the amount of ram.

[TechSY730]

Do you play on normal? There is a 2x multiplyer on normal to all the base stats.

So... normal is NOT normal, then... huh. Now I feel like I should play on high, but my CPU is trash.

I don't use the Neinzul starships because it's not really my playstyle, but it sounds like they need help. I don't use exoshields because they're bad.

Out of things that I use, I used to build mines and mobile repair stations. I've stopped; mines feel like they don't do anything(absolutely no evidence or numbers to back that up), and MRS cost WAY too much K.

Everything you metioned has already been discussed here, except for mines. How could I forget about mines. (See http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=5846)

Standard and EMP mines: They do 105k damage each payload. That is actually a good amount of damage. The problem is that their HP is so low, it self-destructs after about 2.5 detonations. That is way too small. It seems like they should get as many full power detonations as the number of individual mines drawn in their sprite/graphic (8, I think)

Area mine: Similar self-destruct too soon issue, but also only does 7500 damage per detonation. Yea, that detonation has an unbounded number of targets it can hit, but with that pathetic amount of damage per ship, it would almost never make a noticeable difference.

[PokerChen]

Well, after a comparison of effects, I've switched to using only EMP mines for an energy-free defense. If the enemy is down 50 ships, that's always a small boon especially in early exos.

Buffing mines can have a very annoying effect in general gameplay on AI planets, however - they do tend to place mines here or there.  On the upside, we create a niche for mine-clearers like tachyon microfighters and sentinel frigates.

So, if we do buff mines, can we convert tachyon drones (they being mobile and small-radius coverage) into mine clearers? I don't normally see a use for these drones aside from plugging tachyon networks.

[TechSY730]

Well, after a comparison of effects, I've switched to using only EMP mines for an energy-free defense. If the enemy is down 50 ships, that's always a small boon especially in early exos.

Buffing mines can have a very annoying effect in general gameplay on AI planets, however - they do tend to place mines here or there.  On the upside, we create a niche for mine-clearers like tachyon microfighters and sentinel frigates.

So, if we do buff mines, can we convert tachyon drones (they being mobile and small-radius coverage) into mine clearers? I don't normally see a use for these drones aside from plugging tachyon networks.

What about the clean-up drones? Isn't mine cleaning pretty much their sole purpose left in life?

[keith.lamothe]

Poll is up.

Will probably go back to a narrower focus next time, but probably good do an anything-goes like this occasionally.