Nominations for target of the Nerfbat of Damocles (II)

[Cinth]

I would say the energy extractors, but in single player mode, they seem about right. In co-op, or in multi-HW, then things start getting out of wack...you start getting way too much energy. Not sure why this happens though; may be a perception thing. As such, I am not nominating them yet.

 
Even on 16 HW games you cannot build everything. You still run out of energy. To build everything, I need all the Zenith reactors up and running and start expanding. Once I have a good handful of planets, energy concerns start going away. Isn't that close to what Single HW starts encounter?

[TechSY730]

They used to be cloaked. They worked fine then, didn't they?
I mean that was 4 or so major versions ago, granted.

Yea, but that was before the alerting and freeing mechanics were overhauled. Not sure what the change was that required the "something needs to shoot a weapon at something to become alerted" to have to include the guard posts being able to shoot as well (was it the change to make the AI use low-power/stand-down mode?), but there was a good reason for this.

[keith.lamothe]

*Nomination: keith.lamothe

I'm sure if my daughters had a nerfbat they'd have already accomplished that

On the wormhole guard posts thing, I was actually thinking about that a couple nights ago: would it hurt to just get rid of them?  It's not like the AI really needs the extra reinforcements it gets from them nowadays.

Then I recalled something important: without them the AI will probably have zero military presence around most wormholes, which would probably lead to a "house without walls" feel.

They used to just be invisible and invincible, to fulfill that role.  Then they were made visible but it was too easy to kill them so people were completely-neutering systems very quickly and AI reinforcements were tanking pretty hard.  So they were made tough-as-nails and given a little popgun to make sure their guards wake up at the proper time (which is also responsible for its range).

But I wonder if just making them reasonably killable, substantial combatants, and merging them and the tachyon guardian (though that might make tachyon drilling too hard) wouldn't be a bad thing.  It might give the cheesemasters some new angles to work, but I'd like to deal with that in some way other than "player is constantly tripping over nigh-invulnerable annoyances".  Albeit easy enough to ignore most of the time, hence this not coming up much over the past two years.

But it might be better to leave well-enough alone for now, too

[Volatar]

But it might be better to leave well-enough alone for now, too

You just put out a major release. This is when we get the chance to make the most sweeping changes and test them for long periods. 

[Lancefighter]

That was actually one of the things I was thinking about - At the moment, tachyon guardians are both always there and somewhat weak I feel.

If we put wormhole guard posts into the tachyon guardians, it does make it slightly harder to cheese the tachyons away, although it would still be possible.

I'm thinking something in the range ofa  50m ? hp guard post, with some sort of weapons. If i had to say, itd be close to an mrls - Heavy damage, small range. But possibly would need to make them not hit scouts,

[Cinth]

My Neinzul Cruisers love them some WHGP when they are out and about AI space. 1 WHGP can completely regen a full flight of 8 NSCA (Vampirism) with a little health left over.

[Mánagarmr]

They used to be cloaked. They worked fine then, didn't they?
I mean that was 4 or so major versions ago, granted.

Permacloaked. And I liked them better that way

[Atomikkrab]

Nomination: Ravenous Shadow. STOP SHOWING UP BEFORE I HAVE A CRUISER. 

Nomination for the AI: AI carrier

Nomination  player: Hive golem. I agree in that one hive golem can neuter an ai system at negligible cost to itself

Nomination: Those exploding colony ships, you hit that one late and it will ruin your day with 150 respawning bombs.

[Cinth]

Nomination: Ravenous Shadow. STOP SHOWING UP BEFORE I HAVE A CRUISER. 

Frustrating but beatable with destroyers. I heard a rumor that Keith beat it with a frigate.

[Volatar]

Nomination for the AI: AI carrier

Why? They don't seem powerful to me.

[Cinth]

Nomination for the AI: AI carrier

Why? They don't seem powerful to me.

They were recently buffed too. Best thing to do with these is to let DS actively pop them.

[Draco18s]

That was actually one of the things I was thinking about - At the moment, tachyon guardians are both always there and somewhat weak I feel.

Agreed.

I'd be open to the idea of maching the tachyon guard posts less common AND beefier (by merging it with the wormhold guard post).

That'd make them a problem that needs to be dealt with, but not a problem that needs to be dealt with all the time.

[Wanderer]

I would like to see tachyons more of a sporadic encounter then a permanent anti-cloak that requires drilling as well.

Regarding the WHGPs, they're just about right.  If you WANT to clear your highway to the point that you won't wake the neighbors as you pass by, you're going to spend some time to do it.  Otherwise, they're practically ignorable.  My only real complaint about them is if you want to truly remove gate-activity from a nearby system that you have to pass through semi-often you have to pop them because they get their own sets of guardians, and eventually you start spawning warp-guardians on them.

I'm going to hold off on my nominations right now because I want to nominate the entire SF fleet.  That might be overkill however, and is a single game bias.

[zoutzakje]

I'm not going to nominate wormhole guard posts here because I feel they need a change, not a nerf. They aren't interesting right now and I would like to see that differently. I'm thinking of having them serve the same purpose as they do now (reinforce wormholes), but then with about 1/4 of it's current hp, big guns on it, and only attacking you when you attack them. You want that freeway road? Get ready for some resistance then, instead of an often long and boring grind.

As for the nerfbat...

*Nomination*: Martyrs

I have honestly no idea how to change these in a way that they are fun to use, still have the same-ish mechanic, and aren't so overpowered. I like using them right now, but it makes defending against waves so very easy. A wave of 10000 mk IV missile frigs? who cares. A single mk II or III martyr on top of the wormhole and they're dead. It feels like cheese. Perhaps limit the amount of enemy ships it can hit with it's explosion? Like 200*mk or something. Decreasing and increasing with high/low ship caps of course.

[TechSY730]

*Nomination*: Martyrs

I have honestly no idea how to change these in a way that they are fun to use, still have the same-ish mechanic, and aren't so overpowered. I like using them right now, but it makes defending against waves so very easy. A wave of 10000 mk IV missile frigs? who cares. A single mk II or III martyr on top of the wormhole and they're dead. It feels like cheese. Perhaps limit the amount of enemy ships it can hit with it's explosion? Like 200*mk or something. Decreasing and increasing with high/low ship caps of course.

Ah, forgot about those.

Which reminds me...

*Nomination: Spirecraft Scouts
*Nomination: Spirecraft Jumpships

Can get out way too far before their lifetime is up. The scouts can get stupidly far out even at Mk. I, and so can the jumpships (Yes, even 7 seconds is too much, as they can teleport)