Nominations for new Bonus Ships for the "Vengeance of the Machine" expansion

[keith.lamothe]

So we're gearing up for this.  Right now I'm planning on 6 new bonus ship types though there's some play in that number if we get more really awesome ideas than that (though to some extent we want to save some for later, too).

To clarify, by "Bonus Ship" I mean a type of ship that can be built by the human player at the Space Dock or the Starship Constructor, but can only be built if it was granted by the homeworld(s) initially chosen in the lobby or obtained by capturing an Advanced Research Station.

Every nominated idea should have a mantis record and indeed that's an excellent place to find bonus ship suggestions to nominate (just filter by Category = "Suggestion - New Unit Ideas - Bonus Ships").  But this thread is a good place for an "all-together" discussion so we don't all have to keep up with the comment thread on every single linked mantis record, etc.

Anyway, I'll probably let this thread go for a few days before actually starting a poll, not needing to rush this

[Toranth]

I don't know if the game can even support this, but what about something like the D&D Brain Rats?  Individually, each ship is quite weak.  However, en masse they power up and become very dangerous.  Maybe something like "Attack = 10 * # ships of this type in this system."  I'd suggest upscaling HP and Armor as well, but I think might not work out well.

I think it'd be a fun ship, and in AI hands, !!Fun!!.

[TechSY730]

I don't know if the game can even support this, but what about something like the D&D Brain Rats?  Individually, each ship is quite weak.  However, en masse they power up and become very dangerous.  Maybe something like "Attack = 10 * # ships of this type in this system."  I'd suggest upscaling HP and Armor as well, but I think might not work out well.

I think it'd be a fun ship, and in AI hands, !!Fun!!.

Didn't minipods used to work like this?

Anyways, I don't see a mantis on this (I may post one later), but some sort of high capped, long range unit?

[keith.lamothe]

I don't know if the game can even support this, but what about something like the D&D Brain Rats?  Individually, each ship is quite weak.  However, en masse they power up and become very dangerous.  Maybe something like "Attack = 10 * # ships of this type in this system."  I'd suggest upscaling HP and Armor as well, but I think might not work out well.

I think it'd be a fun ship, and in AI hands, !!Fun!!.

I think it'd work as an AI-only ship, but not so much as a bonus ship, for the same reason the autocannon minipods got shifted away from that mechanic.  But with a mantis record it can certainly go in the poll

[Toranth]

I don't know if the game can even support this, but what about something like the D&D Brain Rats?  Individually, each ship is quite weak.  However, en masse they power up and become very dangerous.  Maybe something like "Attack = 10 * # ships of this type in this system."  I'd suggest upscaling HP and Armor as well, but I think might not work out well.

I think it'd be a fun ship, and in AI hands, !!Fun!!.

I think it'd work as an AI-only ship, but not so much as a bonus ship, for the same reason the autocannon minipods got shifted away from that mechanic.  But with a mantis record it can certainly go in the poll

Hmm.  Archive search shows that there used to be Cluster Bonus and Cluster Penalty modifiers.  And I can see that they went away late in the 3.xxx era, but I don't see any discussion on why (probably using the wrong search terms).  If you remember, why were they removed?

[Radiant Phoenix]

This looks interesting: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=9333

I think that a, "very long range starship," (i.e., a bonus combat starship that does large amounts of damage at 30k+ range)  and a, "lightning starship," (i.e., a bonus combat starship that does lots of damage to lots of targets) both have enough potential on their own to be a ship, in addition to the combined thing.

[Hearteater]

@Toranth:
The player can only have X of such a ship, where X is the cap times the number of Homeworlds.  The AI, however, can have many times that amount.  The result is for the ship to be good to the player, it ends up with insane multipliers for the AI.  If you limit the max damage, then the AI almost always has max and the player has something less than max.  This ends up feeling like a penalty to the player, not a neat feature of the ship.

[chemical_art]

Zenith Battleship-

Designed as a capital fleetship (if there is such a thing) to counter larger spire fleetships, this craft fires volleys of shells at fairly long range (~12k) with a great punch, at the cost of being ineffective against smaller targets.

Compared to the bombard, the battleship sacrifices range and absolute damage in return for far greater health and an ace in the hole for typical spire fleets and defenses...it pierces shields.

+High health
+Fairly long range
+Pierces shields

-Very low caps
-Ineffective against most smaller targets
-Long rate of fire

[Radiant Phoenix]

Why would the Zenith have developed a counter to the Spire? The AI would have, but I was under the impression that the Zenith were mostly out of the picture by then.

[chemical_art]

Why would the Zenith have developed a counter to the Spire? The AI would have, but I was under the impression that the Zenith were mostly out of the picture by then.

I thought the spire went way back too, but maybe they didn't?

[Radiant Phoenix]

If I were making an "Anti-Spire" ship, I'd take a Zenith Bombard and give it:

• Better engines, to kite the ships (~76, like a bomber)
• Longer autokite (~20k) so it will remember to stay out of range of all the non-sniper modules

It's already got immunity to sniper shots and has the range to stay away from the Spire, so now we've got something the Imperial Spire literally can't ever reach, unless it makes a mistake.

EDIT: Maybe call it the, "autokiter," make it a higher-cap ship, decrease the DPS a bit, and give it even more speed (~128) and autokite (~25k), so it just stays away from everything and shoots it until it dies.

[keith.lamothe]

Zenith v Spire is fair-game lore-wise.

[Cinth]

Zenith Battleship-

Designed as a capital fleetship (if there is such a thing) to counter larger spire fleetships, this craft fires volleys of shells at fairly long range (~12k) with a great punch, at the cost of being ineffective against smaller targets.

Compared to the bombard, the battleship sacrifices range and absolute damage in return for far greater health and an ace in the hole for typical spire fleets and defenses...it pierces shields.

+High health
+Fairly long range
+Pierces shields

-Very low caps
-Ineffective against most smaller targets
-Long rate of fire

I'd rage if the AI rolled these.

[keith.lamothe]

I'd rage if the AI rolled these.

A very convincing argument for implementation.

[Cinth]

I'd rage if the AI rolled these.

A very convincing argument for implementation.

Considering that FS gives me an offense after unlocking a lot of defense (and I just love the Spire) and the fact that the AI has no respect for ship caps... I'd reroll a game in a heartbeat.