Author Topic: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish  (Read 17347 times)

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2014, 12:58:27 am »
Multiplayer nebulae just scale up. If you have enough champs, then there will be multiple RSes in that scenario, even.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2014, 01:24:26 am »
Speaking of champion things, would it be too difficult to put a ctrl option in to force champion into a control group on respawn?
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2014, 08:33:27 am »
Speaking of champion things, would it be too difficult to put a ctrl option in to force champion into a control group on respawn?
That would be nice.

Offline bonesbro

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2014, 11:44:43 am »
Speaking of champion things, would it be too difficult to put a ctrl option in to force champion into a control group on respawn?
That would be nice.
Indeed, that would be nice.  Oh, and if this control group option happened to be the only way you could get allied champions into your control group, well, that would resolve my problem too.  :)

Offline Oriah

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2014, 03:57:16 pm »
Regarding #9

Capturable warhead storage silos? Capturable warhead fabs?

Probably a bad idea, but... Just thought of that.

Offline Tridus

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2014, 04:21:09 pm »
Regarding #9

Capturable warhead storage silos? Capturable warhead fabs?

Probably a bad idea, but... Just thought of that.

Core nuclear warhead silo - For when you want to destroy everything on all planets in this game, and the next game you play.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2014, 09:54:09 pm »
Um, TBH, the "deflation" of the game was one of the big thongs on my "plea" list (I think, I need to check). I honestly do not think the game can wait till 9.000 for this to be finalized. The current balance is already at the cusp of falling apart into utter bad design, IMHO.

Again, I am willing to PAY to ensure that 8.000 has enough time for this sort of stuff to have time to settle.

The armor thing is also a big deal, but not quite as "user visible" as the number of zeroes being thrown all around. ;)

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2014, 09:58:52 pm »
I kinda wonder if armor=number is even working as well as we want it to. I recall it being incredibly arbitrary back when it was still called shields, and was wondering if maybe it should be moved to a more tiered %based system.
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Offline DrFranknfurter

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2014, 12:10:09 am »
Armor unsettles people, year on year, month after month. (17 pages so, "this whole armor thing" August 2013, 11 pages "Ye Ol' Armor debate" July 2012, 12 pages "Armor is not that important currently" in Feb 2012... there are more that are older.) It sounds quite simple but requires quite a big pinch of math to really understand. (attackers shot number, armor piercing, minimum damage and at that point we need to get out the calculator/spreadsheet). I think if it said "Damage from shell x0.2, laser x0.8,  energy bomb x1.2" for example it would be more intuitive... but that would wipe out the armor-piercing side and generally buff low-damage units with anything less than max armor piercing. I'd like it to be split into more variables (shields, evasion, size, ECM, material or whatever) but for each to be more clear about the effects and have the explanation fit in the infocard... which could still make things less clear and throw up lots of messy interactions and balancing problems :(. In short the stats overhaul sounds painful to me even considering just one statistic. So I can see why it is better to leave some things until an elegant solution presents itself and make tweaks for now.

Armor as is,
The good:
+ It factors in attacker ship type, anti-armor and similar.
+ It has a magnitude, so you can have light or heavy armor
+ Has a minimum damage so ships can still die from scratch damage
- Opaque, doesn't indicate the minimum damage (or even that there is a minimum)
+/- Minimum damage doesn't vary by ship type but attack power, favoring heavy hitters like Golems, Spire ships.
+/- Subtracts from every hit, doesn't help low HP units stay alive. (evasion, ECM, size could all  change tohit% and be useful for more agile little things) again favoring heavily armored, heavy hitters (Golems) and punishing small ships which never get much use out of it.
+/- It is consistent, less random-number god tomfoolery for good and ill. (no strange range-to hit interactions of the old shield mechanic)
+/- It's already done, working and took a lot time to get into a state people can live with, it would divide people with drastic changes.

But be it 8.0 or 9.0 or whenever I do feel armor would benefit from a few tweaks or an overhaul. But if superweapons are to become powerful again perhaps just this change:
Have armor indicate minimum damage somewhere on the unit's card and have the bigger, scary ships have a tiny minimum damage so they survive for longer. Golems having "Armor is deducted from hits to a minimum damage of 1% attacker shot power" (or minimum that isn't a % like 10 damage) would keep them alive much longer even if their HP was scaled back significantly.

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2014, 12:19:18 am »
I was thinking a sort of system that relied on tiered %reduction to shot damage..

For instance, a collection of tiers:

Superheavyhaxplating
Starship
Heavy
Medium
Light
Not-Armor

Each one would have a % of mitigation, for instance.. how do i do tables again..

Code: [Select]
armortype  mitigation%
Superheavy 75%
Starship   60%
Heavy      45%
Medium     30%
Light      15%
Not-Armor  0%

that table looks beautiful.

Each level of armor peircing would reduce that by one tier(but not beyond 0). Armor boosting could in theory bring it up to 90%? I dont know if thats a good idea. Anyway that is my totally awesome idea that should probably be in a thread that isnt this one.
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Offline DrFranknfurter

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2014, 01:09:11 am »
One little thing... warhead silos are still worked on by FRD engineers even when building is currently not possible (with no indication that there's a wait between building warheads, like a countdown timer or similar) Also the 'give' button flickers rapidly looking a bit odd... not sure if flickers due to engineers working on it, modifying the build-time and making it redraw it or something. It happens in other places too but oh well.

Also, I wouldn't mind if during a hacking attempt the alert box had a countdown to the hack being done, the one that hovers over the -hacker. "Hacking on x completes in y seconds." or similar.

Noticed that quite a few items seem to have been done recently, warheads, spirecraft, wave-changes, reinforcement logic, salvage changes, alt-progress... curious about the no.7 item in Keith's OP. Buff to Exo sources. After the current game with the wave bug, how about if the wave logic has exo sources as a multiplier? (after 3h?) So later stage FS games have bigger normal waves in addition to the exo waves? Just a suggestion, between 1-2x would be more than enough to put people off using all 3 at once without being very brave.

Offline tadrinth

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2014, 04:18:14 pm »
Tiny polish suggestion: now that Enclave Starship drones are immune to insta-kill, champion drone bay spawns should be as well, as they're even more short-lived.

Offline TechSY730

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2014, 06:49:45 pm »
Good point about the stuff like fusion cutter immunity, those things will need to be adjusted somewhat. Also, what about armor, or armor piercing?
Also, what about all of the ships that have a non-standard damage calculation (in particular, how min/max bounds of those are done)?



As for other UI stuff involving the alt+right click menu (addressing Keith's question he posed to many many posts ago)

Well, there is the whole alt+right click thing in the first place; it isn't obvious that it even exists in the first place, but many important functions (gifting resources, auto-scout, auto-knowledge gather, change layouts on galaxy map so you can drag planets around) are hidden in there.

But in particular, how number option handling is done in these menus (left click increase, right click decrease, alt and control can adjust amount of change) seems really clunky.

Offline DrFranknfurter

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #88 on: May 25, 2014, 03:56:40 pm »
Polish suggestion:

The enemy ships alerts. Perhaps add the total including carriers in brackets afterwards just like you see on the galaxy map, 2000 (9000).
(I rely on the alerts but can be fooled by ships hiding in 10+ carriers)

Offline Shoat

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Re: Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish
« Reply #89 on: May 25, 2014, 07:47:16 pm »
Speaking of champion things, would it be too difficult to put a ctrl option in to force champion into a control group on respawn?

Also make champions who haven't gotten their modules built be auto-targetet by engineers even when "do not assist queues" is on.
The reason I put on "do not assist queues" is because I don't want to randomly have my resources be drained to zero without noticing (I only put engineers onto queues when I KNOW my economy can handle it), but since champion modules are completely free there is no reason why an idle engineer should NOT assist him.

If this can't be done, at least make the alt-progress-spawned starbases, or mini-fortresses or anything similar automatically assist champions in building their modules. Maybe even let Champions build their modules on their own without ANY help as long as they are on the same planet as a player home command station.

I ask this because going back to the homeworld every time a champion dies, then waiting for a (seemingly random) amount of seconds for it to respawn and manually sending an engineer to help the champion rebuild, then sit there and wait till it's done and only THEN being able to send the champion back to the defensive frontlines/to scouting/to deepstriking/to a nebulae is really really tedious.