Nominations for Most Important Pre-8.0 Polish

[TechSY730]

I am going to nominate all of those little UI inconsistencies. Like the search icon things on the map screen (NOT the filter) not being "type-in able", places where the needler turret class are still called basic turrets, tables where columns are not sortable, and lack any sort of reasonable default ordering.

Yea, I am going to have to sit down and list these out at some point...

Some others:

- unpauses don't always get synced with clients in a multiplayer game, leading to a client saying "paused" but the game is still running (time is moving, things are happening, etc) (no mantis yet, but there should be, as this is a pretty big one)
- resistance fighters and spire capital ships still don't have a warp gate point (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=9217)
- remains rebuilders still sometimes get "stuck" on less important stuff (http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=14662)
- turrets have not been readjusted to have caps of multiples of 8 (probably a mantis on this)
- in periods of moderate to heavy lag, ships often overshoot, often heavily, their target point (no mantis yet)
- a "hold position" order that will temporarily override auto-frd and auto-kiting logic (probably a mantis on this)
- an auto-attackmove variants of auto-frd controls (no mantis yet)


I'm sorry, but I don't have quite the time I used to dedicate to this game, which sadly means a lot of the little things I tended to notice are just going to have to sit and wait to be rediscovered and reported by others.

[Cyborg]

Given the success of The Last Federation, will we be seeing the planetcracker in 8.0?

One of the two anchor features for expansion #6 includes a planetcracker somewhat similar to the Acutian one, yes.  First test detonation was Thursday. 

The other anchor feature might also be considered one, depends on how you look at it.

Really! Can't wait!

[TechSY730]

Ooh, two more things.

- A more convenient way of managing preferred target (like using the side bar) (no mantis yet)
- Make sure some of the misc fabricators (warbirds, beam starships, micro-parasites, translocators, etc) are up to proper balance (no mantis yet)

[Qatu]

 The part I dislike most of AI war right now is AI homeworld assault. I've probably completed at least 6 games this year and only once did I see the win screen. The other times I got so bored during the homeworld assaults I just quit the games and called a win.

[Faulty Logic]

1: Yes, less human salvage.

2: Yes, fewer AI starships

3: I don't know if the AI needs more hacking response in general. It's close to impossible if you go negative, so it's sharply limited. The superterminal response could use some buffing, however.

4: I'm indifferent about carriers.

5: Yes, more alt-champ balance/options.

6: Certainly, normal champs are too easy.

7: Yes, spirecraft and golems need more response. Not FS, though.

8: Yes, higher difficulties need a slight buff. And their superweapon responses need a bigger one.

9: Yes, further warhead balance should happen. No, strictly limiting the number of warheads isn't the answer.

How about a timer, where you building a warhead of mark N delays building any more warheads for N minutes? Possibly add a multiplier for armored/nuclear warheads. Still allows you to build up the cap and use one in an emergency, but would help prevent spamming.

10: I never encounter desyncs.

11: Sheer annoyance? I want to set a target by clicking the sidebar. But the one thing I'd change if I could only have one thing is removing the endgame exos. If I have a fleet capable of sequentially smashing both AI homeworlds, I want to just do it, and not be forced to take my time and pop the posts one by one. They don't affect long sieges much because individually they'll squish against decent fleet/defenses. And they don't prevent me from winning if I have a big enough fleet like that, just make it take a while.

12: I don't think Riots are excessively OP. They're made of tissue, and cost more than twice what another starship costs to get to mkIII. With no markIV version. Decoys need some kind of nerf. Area mines don't. Gravity might still.

13: Excessively underpowered units? High-cap ships. Should all have greater (between 1.25 and 1.5 times) cap-dps and cap-health than their normal-cap counterparts, to make up for their faster damage decay and various things that punish unit count.

[Lancefighter]

[
Sooner or later, Arcen will have to decide when these dramatic changes will happen. Eventually, the time to make "shortcuts" for software limitations will seem obsolete compared to hardware changes.

I'm not saying the time is now, but it IS coming soon.

AI Wars 2 will need to happen eventually. And I pray it will not follow the path of the Valley series.

Was the change to Unity not big enough to consider it aiwar 2.0? If anything, we should be thinking about AIwar 3.. And getting rid of Unity for a real engine that can handle the old caps without carriers

[Draco18s]

Was the change to Unity not big enough to consider it aiwar 2.0? If anything, we should be thinking about AIwar 3.. And getting rid of Unity for a real engine that can handle the old caps without carriers

If we're going to do that, we may as well just jump strait to the Cry Engine and have everything rendered in 3D.

[Cyborg]

Was the change to Unity not big enough to consider it aiwar 2.0? If anything, we should be thinking about AIwar 3.. And getting rid of Unity for a real engine that can handle the old caps without carriers

If we're going to do that, we may as well just jump strait to the Cry Engine and have everything rendered in 3D.

Doesn't everyone already own Sins?


I originally recoiled at the unity version, but after playing it for a while, I think I'm okay with it now. We all wish that this game could handle the full power of our machines instead of the memory and processing limitations.  I mean, in a full game, to have any sort of skipping on what is a two-dimensional graphics game, it can be frustrating. And someday, maybe we'll get that when Unity can handle it.


For now, it's still fun, so let's focus on what we can do to keep the party going.

[tadrinth]

Someone mentioned Diff 7 balance for new players, thought I'd toss in my data points:

My first game after the tutorial was Diff 7, 80 planet simple map, easy AI types (sledgehammer + mine enthusiast), simple ship types,  no special options, base+VotM.  I had to reload a few times, but I won.  Closest I came to cheese was core turrets everywhere.  Granted, I read through a fair chunk of the wiki before that, plus Kahuna's Super Cat guide. 

Second game I decided core turrets WAS too cheesy, so I did base game only, Diff 7.3, still 80 planet simple map, still easy AI types (Fortress Baron + Entrenched Homeworlder).  Only options were Human Resistance 4 (which I barely noticed) and Human Colony Rebellions 4... which I don't think I saw at all, game ended in ~9 hours.  I did start with Space Planes, which are the cheesiest thing in the base game, especially vs a Fortress Baron.

So, I think diff 7 is definitely beatable for new players without superweapons, at least if they've done a heck of a lot of reading first, though that may not be a realistic definition of 'new'.  It might be that the expansions I wasn't playing with increase the difficulty, as well; I didn't have to deal with a Teuthida or Wrath Lance, for example. 

EDIT: The Nienzul Enclave starship tooltip still says 10s for Mark I.

[GeistenHaus]

There are plenty of ships I feel are underpowered, but only a few that actually detract from the fun for me.
Laser Gatling ships are probably my biggest irk, they actually make me sad. I love seeing huge amounts of projectiles but I can't find a reason to justify bringing them along. They're said to be a "force multiplier" but they don't particularly shine in that area and there are other ships which fill that role better while also having a specialty in other areas.

Their main weakness comes from 2 areas. Low damage bonuses and low damage per shot making armor laugh them off.
At 1.8 their damage bonuses just don't cut it, lord forbid they're fighting something of a higher mark, that's when their low damage per shot starts to show. The armor piercing only really helps against things of a similar mark. Other low damage per shot ships might be able to put a serious dent in higher mark things due to their damage bonuses.
Those things combined make it so their damage is barely acceptable against things of a similar mark that they actually have a bonus against and laughable against everything else, meaning they suck at their supposed role as a 'force multiplier'.

[TechSY730]

Here is another nomination:

- Galaxy map filters being broken. Which ones are broken, well, it is easier to list which ones AREN'T broken. Try various combinations of the first and second filters, and watch nonsense results come up with many, if not most of them.
Thankfully, the main ones (my/my and allied with ship counts/ship count (strength) seem to be mostly functional) seem to be mostly working right, though even there, I have seen some combinations that lead to your own ships being double counted.

[Kahuna]

There are plenty of ships I feel are underpowered

Armor Boosters, Autocannons, Electric Shuttle, Laser Gatlings, MLRS, Neinzul Youngling Shrike, Spire Armor Rotter, Gravity Ripper, Spire Teleporting Leech, Teleport Battle Station, Zenith Electric Bomber, Zenith Reprocessor

Suggestions:
-Armor Boosters
Gives all allied ships a minimum of 1000 armor and doubles all armor as long as they're in range
(-Planetary Armor Booster
Same for this but gives a minimum of 2000 armor and triples all armor)

-Autocannons
Increase damage from 560 to 1060
Increase health from 54600 to 87360
Change the Swarmer damage multiplier to something else?

-Electric Shuttle
Increase health from 428000 to 642000
Remove the "Personal Attack Boost Limited To +100%" ability

-Laser Gatlings
Increase damage from 600 to 800
Double armor piercing
Increase health from 39400 to 63040
Increase speed from 68 to 76

-MLRS
Increase number of shots from 8 to 12
They're too expensive so decrease their Metal cost

-Neinzul Youngling Shrike
Give Force Field immunity

-Teleport Battle Station EDIT: this might be op
Increase number of shots from 8 to 12
Increase damage from 2840 to 5680
Increase reload time from 4 to 8
Double armor
Increase health from 400000 to 600000

-Zenith Electric Bomber
Increase health from 520000 to 720000
Increase damage from 75800 to 95800
Give them an additional damage multiplier (medium, artillery, heavy?)

[lemon10]

I have two problems with Laser Gatlings:
1) They suck.
2) They are really just another boring swarmer. Despite its description saying that it is "Best in large groups", having more of them doesn't help more then it helps any other ship.

My solution is to have it actually work better in large groups. Give them a +50% damage boost per cap of Laser Gatlings on the planet.
If you had all the T1 gatlings alive, then they would all +50% damage.
If you had all the T1+T2 gatlings, they they all get a +100% damage boost.
If you only had 5 random gatlings alive, then they would only get a tiny damage boost.

This would make them both stronger (as long as you have a significant amount of them alive and on the planet), and also unique (rather then being another boring swarmer).

It is a pretty significant buff (up to +200% damage if you have all T1-T4 alive at once), but I don't think that it would make them overpowered for a few reasons.
1) They are really weak right now, so a big buff is needed.
2) They still would die very quickly, and as they die the damage bonus the other gatlings get goes down.
3) The damage boost for just a single tier isn't much better then what you get off flagships.

Having a health boost on top of that would be nice if the damage boost turns out not to be enough.

[Lancefighter]

What exactly does that do? A sort of 'swarm bonus' doesnt really mean anything. You arent going to use laser gatlings as anything less than full caps of them. It feels silly to add another complicated mechanic when you could just directly make them better somehow.

[Winge]

There are plenty of ships I feel are underpowered

Armor Boosters, Autocannons, Electric Shuttle, Laser Gatlings, MLRS, Neinzul Youngling Shrike, Spire Armor Rotter, Gravity Ripper, Spire Teleporting Leech, Teleport Battle Station, Zenith Electric Bomber, Zenith Reprocessor

Suggestions:
-Autocannons
Increase damage from 560 to 1060
Increase health from 54600 to 87360
Change the Swarmer damage multiplier to something else?


-Neinzul Youngling Shrike
Give Force Field immunity

*others snipped--no comments*

Autocannons:
I would be glad to see this one just get better multipliers, even at the cost of the Swarmer bonus.  Ultra Heavy and Structural are very good multipliers for the player, and Turret makes them more of a threat in the AI's hands.  If a new bonus was in order, Heavy would be a good one.  In addition to the other buffs, of course.

Neinzul Youngling Shrike:
I highly disagree on this one.  These would be way too brutal in the AI's hands--they'd basically be the new Eyebot, but much worse (cloaking, immune to insta-kill, immune to mines, immune to snipers, and almost as fast as a Raid Starship).

What exactly does that do? A sort of 'swarm bonus' doesnt really mean anything. You arent going to use laser gatlings as anything less than full caps of them. It feels silly to add another complicated mechanic when you could just directly make them better somehow.

This.  Fix problem number 1, and Laser Gatlings are fine.  Not every unit has to have something special to it.  If it can do it's job well enough as a combat ship, that's good enough for me.