Nominations for buff/nerf polls for Bonus Ship Types

[chemical_art]

I'm trying to draw the connection between that and the post I was replying to, and I'm not sure I see it.  Is this a separate concern regarding threat behavior and/or hybrids and/or nemesis units, etc?

It is true that the behavior stems from hybirds / HKs / nemesis ships. But is a symptom of the inflation going on. To make things "harder" things are going "stronger". Threats with hundreds of millions of HP appear can start appearing by taking one world. Or after one hour. This is independent of AIP. An HK appears out of the blue in an hour. A dire hybrid can appear within an hour if you take one world early on.

This is perfectly fine behavior with 9+. But when I try to relax with 8, and I experience this, it is just exasperating. Saying "I shouldn't unlock them" is true, to a degree, but these factors should follow the rest of AI Wars of being in response to both AIP and difficulty to a degree.

[keith.lamothe]

This is perfectly fine behavior with 9+. But when I try to relax with 8, and I experience this, it is just exasperating. Saying "I shouldn't unlock them" is true, to a degree, but these factors should follow the rest of AI Wars of being in response to both AIP and difficulty to a degree.

While I understand the logic, I've also heard other players emphatically state that minor-faction/ai-plot/etc challenges should not scale with difficulty at all, but be separate from it.  So it's not an obvious decision.  And some of them are specifically not supposed to scale with AIP (hybrids, FS), though some others could (hunter).

[chemical_art]

While I understand the logic, I've also heard other players emphatically state that minor-faction/ai-plot/etc challenges should not scale with difficulty at all, but be separate from it.  So it's not an obvious decision.  And some of them are specifically not supposed to scale with AIP (hybrids, FS), though some others could (hunter).

It is quite the conundrum.

If when I first played AI War, on 7/7, and I found either some dire guardians or H/K's, I would be unbelievably frustrated. It frustrates me now, after playing this game for years.

[keith.lamothe]

If when I first played AI War, on 7/7, and I found either some dire guardians or H/K's, I would be unbelievably frustrated. It frustrates me now, after playing this game for years.

Well, if a first-time 7/7 player turns on Hunter at 4+, then there's gonna be pain.

On the Dire Guardians, you mean the ones from the lairs (the lair ones always have a countdown show up some time before they actually spawn, or spawn because you blew up the lair), or from exos?

[chemical_art]

If when I first played AI War, on 7/7, and I found either some dire guardians or H/K's, I would be unbelievably frustrated. It frustrates me now, after playing this game for years.

Well, if a first-time 7/7 player turns on Hunter at 4+, then there's gonna be pain.

And that is a problem. I cannot think of a single plot that at 4+ is designed to cause unbeliable pain to vets at 8 within two hours. Not a single one. Some, like the missile silos, hurt later on, but not within two hours indepedent of player action nor difficulty nor AIP.

On the Dire Guardians, you mean the ones from the lairs (the lair ones always have a countdown show up some time before they actually spawn, or spawn because you blew up the lair), or from exos?

The lairs. I have had 5 games now, each which took 15 minutes to begin with (a separate issue altogether), and all have had a lair within two hops, meaning after taking oneworlds the countdown starts. Even within making a fortress world with 3/4 caps turrets + mk II lasers and MK II command station, the dire guardians smash the world then my HW. That. Just. Isn't. Fun. When I didn't ask for it by choosing 9+.

[KDR_11k]

Perhaps lightning turrets should launch AOE shots instead of insta-zapping around themselves? That would both allow more range and make the shot travel time counteract the alpha wasteage.

[Tridus]

Perhaps lightning turrets should launch AOE shots instead of insta-zapping around themselves? That would both allow more range and make the shot travel time counteract the alpha wasteage.

Lightning torpedo turrets? 

[chemical_art]

Perhaps lightning turrets should launch AOE shots instead of insta-zapping around themselves? That would both allow more range and make the shot travel time counteract the alpha wasteage.

Lightning torpedo turrets? 

I've considered that as a band-aid to the current wave mechanics

[TechSY730]

If when I first played AI War, on 7/7, and I found either some dire guardians or H/K's, I would be unbelievably frustrated. It frustrates me now, after playing this game for years.

Well, if a first-time 7/7 player turns on Hunter at 4+, then there's gonna be pain.

And that is a problem. I cannot think of a single plot that at 4+ is designed to cause unbeliable pain to vets at 8 within two hours. Not a single one. Some, like the missile silos, hurt later on, but not within two hours indepedent of player action nor difficulty nor AIP.

On the Dire Guardians, you mean the ones from the lairs (the lair ones always have a countdown show up some time before they actually spawn, or spawn because you blew up the lair), or from exos?

The lairs. I have had 5 games now, each which took 15 minutes to begin with (a separate issue altogether), and all have had a lair within two hops, meaning after taking oneworlds the countdown starts. Even within making a fortress world with 3/4 caps turrets + mk II lasers and MK II command station, the dire guardians smash the world then my HW. That. Just. Isn't. Fun. When I didn't ask for it by choosing 9+.

Isn't that just a sign of balance of these plots being off currently, timing especially? This expansion is in beta after all.

That said, if some plots would be good candidates for being in red text, these might be a good candidate for it.

[keith.lamothe]

How about I just add "Warning: This Plot Really HURTS!" to the top of the Hunter description?

Sure, they might not read it, but if you enable a non-default option without reading the tooltip you're just asking for it.

I mean, I could nerf it so that you don't get the H/K until intensity 8 (instead of 4) or whatever, but since the whole request behind the plot was "add an H/K to the SF" (correct me if I'm wrong, Faulty, it was your request), well, that seems to be missing the point.

[orzelek]

To be honest I would rather vote for new campaign types and such. New ways to play with the massive amount of stuff we've got. After all, if we've already got tons of stuff and exactly a game mode to play with it on... you (effectively) double the amount of stuff that you can do with it by adding a second game mode.

I'm still hoping for time where Defense mode will morph in AIW The TD. It can be a game mode thats more different then current one with reuse of all the assets

[keith.lamothe]

To be honest I would rather vote for new campaign types and such. New ways to play with the massive amount of stuff we've got. After all, if we've already got tons of stuff and exactly a game mode to play with it on... you (effectively) double the amount of stuff that you can do with it by adding a second game mode.

I'm still hoping for time where Defense mode will morph in AIW The TD. It can be a game mode thats more different then current one with reuse of all the assets

I do want to redo Defense Mode, yea.  The main reason I haven't is that people don't really seem to care about its existence

Though the direction I was thinking to go with it was more bringing it closer to the normal game (so that the various minor factions and plots and whatnot actually apply to it in a meaningful way; good luck trying FS on Defender Mode right now).

[chemical_art]

I mean, I could nerf it so that you don't get the H/K until intensity 8 (instead of 4) or whatever, but since the whole request behind the plot was "add an H/K to the SF" (correct me if I'm wrong, Faulty, it was your request), well, that seems to be missing the point.

Well, why not have the plot influence the time it takes for the H/K to form, rather then an H/K form altogether?

Keywords: Independent of AIP, difficulty, or player action, one hour in.

Some of these variables can be changed, no?

For me, when I heard the plot, I thought "The SF gets a lot more freedom to pick and choose how it spends its budget". Meaning starships, experiments, core units, even the occassional H/K...

but the idea of an H/K mearly being tacked on? That just isn't nearly as entertaining.

Even taking the digression of whether it should be part of the budget or mearly added on, the extent of Hunter should be not be adding just H/K's. It should be a variety of units, with H/K's being rare and the crown jewel of the SF force. The H/K should come several hours into a game, not within the first hour.  Plenty of other units should be part of the force as well.

[keith.lamothe]

Even taking the digression of whether it should be part of the budget or mearly added on, the extent of Hunter should be not be adding just H/K's. It should be a variety of units, with H/K's being rare and the crown jewel of the SF force. The H/K should come several hours into a game, not within the first hour.  Plenty of other units should be part of the force as well.

It may be worth starting a new thread on this.

I'm personally fine with doing something exactly like what you describe.  But there's tension between what you're asking for and what Faulty asked for.  If you two and the others agree on some new approach that's feasible for me to do in, say, 3 hours I'm certainly game

[chemical_art]

Even taking the digression of whether it should be part of the budget or mearly added on, the extent of Hunter should be not be adding just H/K's. It should be a variety of units, with H/K's being rare and the crown jewel of the SF force. The H/K should come several hours into a game, not within the first hour.  Plenty of other units should be part of the force as well.

It may be worth starting a new thread on this.

I'm personally fine with doing something exactly like what you describe.  But there's tension between what you're asking for and what Faulty asked for.  If you two and the others agree on some new approach that's feasible for me to do in, say, 3 hours I'm certainly game

Could you post the thread where the idea originated? That would help resolve the contradicting ideas.