No matchmaking is hurting this game bad

[x4000]

Thanks for that -- though, you're absolutely right that I can't tell a troll.  I can suspect, but some of our best and brightest community members started out hostile simply because they assumed we wouldn't give them a fair listen.  So I try to err on the side of assuming someone is having a bad day.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, I don't think that was someone setting out with the purpose of wasting our time.  He was wrong, and angry, but genuinely believed his message ("this game needs matchmaking").

And, ironically, it did provoke some useful thought: we've never been all that _happy_ with how hard it can be to find an AIW game, we just think that the underlying problem is of a far greater scope than any technical solution like matchmaking tools can possibly solve.  Namely, that of finding a group of good people who can get together for 4+ multi-hour sessions online to actually finish a game

But there may be some incremental improvements we can make like with a builtin IRC or something... if y'all really think it's worth spending time on rather than on other features, etc.

[Nalgas]

I really don't see how traditional matchmaking with total strangers would work with this game, considering how much work it is just to play a complete game even with people I know.  Not really sure what good IRC would do, either, but maybe I'm missing something.

The one thing I can think of that does seem potentially useful would be some sort of calendaring system where people could sign up for times they're available, and then maybe do matchmaking around that (manually, automated, whatever).  The subforum for it is kind of dead at times, so I don't know how much interest there would be, but actually being able to see if there are people with similar schedules in a UI designed for it rather than having to dig through forum posts could be a little easier to work with.  Maybe.

[x4000]

The one thing I can think of that does seem potentially useful would be some sort of calendaring system where people could sign up for times they're available, and then maybe do matchmaking around that (manually, automated, whatever).  The subforum for it is kind of dead at times, so I don't know how much interest there would be, but actually being able to see if there are people with similar schedules in a UI designed for it rather than having to dig through forum posts could be a little easier to work with.  Maybe.

Yeah, our original matchmaking ideas, about a year ago, were very much in this line of thinking.  But this sort of thing requires a way to authenticate users, to have user accounts and passwords, to show all sorts of complex schedules and overalys and to run queries against schedules on fairly complex parameters, etc.  It's very much doable, but it's a lot of work, and we dropped it when there didn't seem to be interest sufficient to warrant it.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, I've actually done a fair bit of work with scheduling-on-a-calendar models and interfaces in my other job, and two words neatly express the starkly horrific amount of pain that can be involved: "Temporal Geometry".

But yea, something along those lines could potentially help a lot in the "information management" problem of X hundreds of people each with Y available timeslots and Z game-type preferences, etc.

[x4000]

and two words neatly express the starkly horrific amount of pain that can be involved: "Temporal Geometry".

Yeah, I developed not one but three levels of project management tracking subsystems, and two different time tracking mechanisms, in my last job as well.  We had multiple such subsystems because the pain of using such systems is almost as bad as the pain of making them, and so we had different styles and complexity levels to match the widely-varying customer base we had.  The end result systems were actually really good if that's what you needed as a customer, but they were cumulatively months in the making and not my favorite things to do.  And I'm a guy who likes financial reporting type code.

[BobTheJanitor]

A properly implemented, unobtrusive IRC window could be a great addition to the game. Completely aside from matchmaking possibilities, as well. I'm imagining something I could tuck down in the corner of my screen and browse while ordering my ships around. It would give it that social feel like MMOs have. That isn't always a good thing, mind you, but I think the community in this game is generally of high enough quality that it would be enjoyable to have. I'm reminded of when I used to play WoW or Eve, and how it could be nice to have a guild/corp chat down in the corner to keep me amused while I'm out grinding on monsters/asteroids.

This would also help to smooth out the learning curve a fair bit. Confused questions could be answered right in game by other players, instead of requiring sifting the wiki or posting on the forums and waiting. The more I think of it, the better this idea sounds. Can I make another mantis account and vote this up multiple times?  

[keith.lamothe]

Can I make another mantis account and vote this up multiple times?  

Just take the EvE approach: enslave others to do your will

[Echo35]

Ah yes, I come from some of the worst gaming forum communities known to mankind, I know a troll when I see one.

League of Legends?

The one thing I can think of that does seem potentially useful would be some sort of calendaring system where people could sign up for times they're available, and then maybe do matchmaking around that (manually, automated, whatever).  The subforum for it is kind of dead at times, so I don't know how much interest there would be, but actually being able to see if there are people with similar schedules in a UI designed for it rather than having to dig through forum posts could be a little easier to work with.  Maybe.

Yeah, our original matchmaking ideas, about a year ago, were very much in this line of thinking.  But this sort of thing requires a way to authenticate users, to have user accounts and passwords, to show all sorts of complex schedules and overalys and to run queries against schedules on fairly complex parameters, etc.  It's very much doable, but it's a lot of work, and we dropped it when there didn't seem to be interest sufficient to warrant it.

Google Calendar can do appointments, just saying.

[Nalgas]

This would also help to smooth out the learning curve a fair bit. Confused questions could be answered right in game by other players, instead of requiring sifting the wiki or posting on the forums and waiting.

This part I can understand the appeal of.  Didn't really think about that before.

The other stuff about just having people to talk to while playing a single player game, though...  A lot of the time I play single player games because they're single player, but if I do need someone to entertain me because the game isn't doing a good enough job, I have my laptop next to my desktop with at least 14 different distracting windows open at any given time, so that definitely never would've occurred to me.  Heh.

Ah yes, I come from some of the worst gaming forum communities known to mankind, I know a troll when I see one.

League of Legends?

Heh.  Good call.  I was thinking CoD/Halo initially, but that probably wins.

[Cyborg]

I'm not convinced on the calendar idea. For me, it's more than just finding like-minded schedules. I think I want to at least exchange a couple sentences with somebody to see if we have agreeable personalities and to make sure they are not new. In that way, IRC is much better. Also, having a window in the corner might be a good way to develop community and make those ties.

[BobTheJanitor]

The other stuff about just having people to talk to while playing a single player game, though...  A lot of the time I play single player games because they're single player, but if I do need someone to entertain me because the game isn't doing a good enough job, I have my laptop next to my desktop with at least 14 different distracting windows open at any given time, so that definitely never would've occurred to me.  Heh.

Ideally a chat window would be entirely optional and easy to minimize or disable outright if a person didn't want it. (Because they're an antisocial curmudgeon, perhaps) But having a good social aspect to a game can be a great bonus. And not something contrived like most 'social games' seem to try to shoehorn in these days. Just a spot for people to chat while playing. It's the kind of thing that will keep people coming back and make them more loyal to the game in the long term. I can think of many times that I've played a game less for the game content and more because I wanted to enjoy rambling conversations with other players. Just about any MMO I've ever played comes to mind. I was still playing WoW long after I'd grown to hate it because I liked the other players there. And that was costing me a monthly subscription fee, just for the privilege of chatting with some friends.

The social draw can be a strong thing. Especially for a demographic that can sometimes live up to its stereotype of being antisocial. It's not that nerds don't have the same desire for social interaction that the rest of humanity has, it's just that they don't like leaving their cave to go find it.  

[Nalgas]

Ideally a chat window would be entirely optional and easy to minimize or disable outright if a person didn't want it.
[...]
I can think of many times that I've played a game less for the game content and more because I wanted to enjoy rambling conversations with other players. Just about any MMO I've ever played comes to mind.

Oh, I'm not opposed to it by any means.  I used to do the same thing with MUDs.  I just don't always think about combining things that way now that I have entirely separate screens/machines that I can use for different tasks.  Sometimes I'm genuinely surprised when a friend tells me that a game I've spent dozens of hours playing crashes every time you try to tab out of it to do other things, because I've never even tried, because I just use my laptop instead.  I'm so spoiled compared to before.  Heh.

[Volatar]

Ah yes, I come from some of the worst gaming forum communities known to mankind, I know a troll when I see one.

League of Legends?

League of Legends just recently crowd-sourced their moderation, and it's rapidly improving things.

[vordrax]

League of Legends just recently crowd-sourced their moderation, and it's rapidly improving things.

The Tribunal? The biggest issue with it, at the moment, is that it creates a situation where people can troll in ways that don't involve announcing it and easily get away with it (bad item build, terrible coordination, things that annoy people and make them lose but aren't so easy to judge after the fact.) The upside is that few trolls have the self-discipline to troll without letting everyone know, since trolls are very interested in having attention.


As to the topic:

TC had a point, that there is no in-game method of communicating with other players (and I'd wager the majority of players for any game don't visit the forum.) The IRC idea given by the devs is a great one, and a much better solution to this issue than matchmaking. While I wouldn't use it myself, I definitely understand how frustrating it is to want to play a game like this co-op and have no friends who play it.

Just beware of IRC trolls and spambots. You might want to require forum membership to use the in-game IRC function. You've seen the effect they had on the public wiki.