Author Topic: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad  (Read 21028 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2011, 06:02:43 pm »
This is a very nice echo chamber. No point in disturbing it, i guess.
Well, there is the possibility that everyone in this thread except you represents the view of a really small minority of players.

However, there is also the possibility that it represents the view of a majority of players.

Have you even considered that you might simply be wrong?  It happens to the best of us, you know.
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Offline Vinraith

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2011, 10:09:42 pm »
Allow me to add another voice to the "echo chamber." I can't imagine ever playing this game with strangers. The time commitment is too vast, the level of needed coordination too high, and I just can't imagine it being any fun. It's funny to me how the folks that demand PvP in every game and matchmaking in every game always claim to represent the majority, yet if you look at the number of people that use these services/modes in comparison to the sales of the games it's always a tiny fraction. Frankly, I think it's pretty clear that single player gamers that don't post on forums make up the majority userbase of very nearly every game ever made, I'd say it's best to assign resources accordingly.

Offline x4000

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2011, 10:12:45 pm »
Frankly, I think it's pretty clear that single player gamers that don't post on forums make up the majority userbase of very nearly every game ever made, I'd say it's best to assign resources accordingly.

That's been a big part of our thinking, too.  Though, certainly Keith laid out our thinking really clearly above, too.  The core argument in the OP seems to be "other games have this, so I expect it here," despite the fact that this is a really different game from the other games cited.  Anyway, I'll leave that alone.
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Offline doctorfrog

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2011, 01:35:04 am »
Just a thought here, what about a built-in IRC or other chat client that points to an official AI War chat server?

Obviously, it's easy enough for some of us to just download a client and point it to the right server, the right room, and begin chatting. And, the web site itself has a built-in chat client IIRC.

But these exist outside the game. This isn't the norm for most multiplayer games, which overwhelmingly provide built-in means to connect with other players.

It isn't abnormal for a new player to kind of scratch his head over this, it's abnormal to require players to do much work at all to find someone to play with.

Note that I'm not saying it's wrong, or that AI War is fundamentally broken. But it is outside the norm. It is outside normal expectations. It is going to alienate a portion of your customers.

Having chat built directly into AI War will at least give a new player, who perhaps doesn't feel like trawling forums and installing software he might not normally use, a direct line to other players who want to play or at least discuss AI War live. The chat itself already functions as a matchmaking service. So put it in the game.

This especially goes double for the expectations that most players have (after at least a decade of video games providing their own in-built matchmaking) that the game provide a way to connect with

Not able to dedicate the dev time to coding and IRC client (or acquiring the code to do so)? Have a button within the game, that very clearly states "Find other AI War players!" and have it point to a very clear, very concise information page on the top two or three ways to find other players. Have it quickly explain why there's none of the matchmaking that we're used to, and the best way to find someone on their wavelength. Get them on their way with at least a little bit less of the trouble they have now: Sign up for yet another damned forum account. Download and figure out an IRC client. Read a freaking Wiki page. None of these things are fun. None of these things are what players want to do when they launch AI War.

Explain to the user that this is a game that requires around 10 hours of play per game, and to choose their fellow players wisely. Make it easier for them, and you'll offend fewer of the mostly silent majority/minority that the OP may or may not represent.

(Full disclosure: this is from someone who generally has no interest in multiplayer, but knows that multiplayer hookups in this game are an inescapable pain. These are my two pennies, take 'em or leave 'em.)

single player gamers that don't post on forums make up the majority userbase of very nearly every game ever made, I'd say it's best to assign resources accordingly.

This is also pretty true.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 01:38:27 am by doctorfrog »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2011, 07:01:34 am »
Yea, the builtin-IRC client has been a request in the past.  It's just one of those things where we wonder why we should have to reinvent a wheel that's quite well implemented just 3 clicks in another direction ;)  Also sounds like quite a bit of dev-time, since that's a fairly sophisticated wheel.  But out of curiosity, does anyone here know of an example in-game implementation we can look at?  Preferably one that's public domain or has a license compatible with commercial derivative works, etc.  Not that I'm one to just go copy someone else's implementation (I generally write my own... everything, just so I know how it works) but it's easier to avoid entanglements that way.

And yes, perhaps some more explicit statement prominently displayed to folks who go into the multiplayer part of what to expect, what not to expect, etc... might help.

We're super-busy with AVWW right now, but it's good to think about this stuff.
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Offline x4000

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2011, 07:19:58 am »
There actually is an in-unity irc client that I saw a bit ago. It will take some adapting, but could work at some point.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2011, 08:56:44 am »
frozen synapse, a new tactical game, has a built-in IRC client. It's actually integral to the gameplay.
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Offline superking

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2011, 11:12:16 am »
I would plus one million a built in IRC channel. people LOVE irc channels. TA spring, I hang on the IRC all the time. Star Rulers ingame IRC client is so unobtrustive and full of useful people that I have it open at all times. it eradicates that feeling of being alone while playing single player games.

Offline x4000

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2011, 11:16:53 am »
Well, seriously -- if it's in mantis, start voting that up, folks.  It's certainly within the realm of possibility, though we'd have to start hosting our own IRC channel in some fashion (not sure how that would work with rackspace, though) because the existing IRC channel is hosted by a third party that I don't want to have everyone from the game hammering on.

Like Keith said, we're pretty tied up with AVWW at the moment, but sometime in the coming months if this is a super popular thing that people want, I imagine we could make the IRC built-in thing happen in some fashion.
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2011, 12:48:26 pm »
I'm not seeing the issue in mantis, and I don't really want to open a duplicate if at all possible. Is anyone else seeing it? Post it here please.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2011, 12:48:48 pm »
Well, seriously -- if it's in mantis, start voting that up, folks.  It's certainly within the realm of possibility, though we'd have to start hosting our own IRC channel in some fashion (not sure how that would work with rackspace, though) because the existing IRC channel is hosted by a third party that I don't want to have everyone from the game hammering on.

Like Keith said, we're pretty tied up with AVWW at the moment, but sometime in the coming months if this is a super popular thing that people want, I imagine we could make the IRC built-in thing happen in some fashion.

Is it in Mantis? I'll go start one if not. I do think it would be a neat thing to have though. You could even tie it into the story by saying it's a subspace channel accessed by fragments of the human rebellion in other parts of the galaxy :P

EDIT: Here, I went and made one, I couldn't find any tickets either, so sorry if it's a duplicate. http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=3492
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 12:51:50 pm by Echo35 »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2011, 12:51:08 pm »
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Offline x4000

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2011, 02:02:48 pm »
No worries, I marked it as related and such.  Anyone who wants this, be sure to vote it up in this one via the Issue Community Support: http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=698
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Offline Professor Paul1290

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2011, 05:46:30 pm »
All the times I've played multiplayer AI War have been with groups of friends who don't post here or visit the IRC, and most of the multiplayer games I've seen that I have not taken part in myself have been this way as well. I suspect a lot of AI War multiplayer works this way due to the cooperative nature of the game and the commitment needed.

Right now, there's not much incentive for isolated groups players to tell us they exist or come here unless they need more players. They often already have their group of friends they like to play with and don't feel the need to unless they need help with something.

I think in-game IRC might help with this somewhat by making players more aware of each other without requiring much effort on their part.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 05:48:57 pm by Professor Paul1290 »

Offline Wingflier

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Re: No matchmaking is hurting this game bad
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 04:00:55 am »
You two (Keith and Chris) have patience that is Christlike; but for future reference, it's probably not even worth responding to a topic-starter who uses profanity and admits that he isn't going to listen to your responses.

When later he starts giving reasons why you should be ashamed, the thread has now become a personal attack.

Ah yes, I come from some of the worst gaming forum communities known to mankind, I know a troll when I see one.
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