Author Topic: Newbie Questions  (Read 1848 times)

Offline Nikolai01

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Newbie Questions
« on: December 02, 2014, 05:33:56 pm »
Hi All,

Got a few newbie questions.  Sorry if these have been gone over a million times, but this game has been updated and overhauled so much it's hard to tell what data is obsolete.   ;)

I'm currently in my first real game, 2 hours in, Beginner 2 setup, 7/7 opponents (played much, much more than 2 hours.  I'm pause crazy).  I currently have 7 "core" worlds (with a so-so 3 planet front), and one additional planet 3 jumps away from the core, that had a fabricator and a CSG I wanted.  AIP is currently at 133.  I've taken out quite a few CSGs that were close to my homeworld, found 2 ARCs, and hacked one design backup for my own use.  I've scouted just over 50% of the planets so far, but can't scout any further without expanding more (only Mk1 scouts and scout starships).

1)  What AIP is acceptable at which stages of the game?  I see numbers referenced all over the place, but the levels seem to have changed over the years.  I understand that this will some degree depend on your competence at holding off the AI...

2)  Expansion.  I've got a partially defensible core, but want to grow more to A) get some of the advanced factories/fabricators I've discovered, B) take out the remaining CSGs, and C) try and finish scouting into the deep, dark corners of the map that I haven't got to yet.  Given the amount of planets I currently have, though (8 of 80), I'm hesitant about taking large swaths of territory and enraging the computer, and am considering a scattering of planets several jumps apart from each other, just taking what's important.  Is that the correct mindset at this point in the game?  Connected with that:

3)  Technology and defense.  Up until now, other than Mk2 metal refiners, all of my knowledge has been spent on either fleet or starships.  I figured they'd help with both offense and defense, and since I found an advanced fleet factory only a few jumps away (which I haven't captured yet) I've been really tempted to upgrade my fleet ships to Mk3 (in anticipation of Mk4).  The problem is, if I am now going to have a smattering of colonies spread all throughout the map (with several hostile jumps between) I'm worried I won't be able to cover all my fronts with my fleet.  I only have Mk1 turrets, however.  Is this a common upgrade path?  Looking through the forums, it seems that many players are far more turret-happy than I am.  Is there normally more of an emphasis on turrets than ships?

Thanks for any help!  If I've missed useful discussions of this already in the forums, feel free to just redirect...

-Nikolai
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 05:35:29 pm by Nikolai01 »

Offline tadrinth

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 06:48:30 pm »
Tolerable AIP levels vary rather dramatically with a number of factors so it's hard to give particularly strict rules.  In a typical sort of game you expect to capture up to 20 planets, with the associated AIP increases.    If you're doing Fallen Spire, then AIP is much less of a concern; you are recruiting alien allies which allow you to much more directly confront the AI.  2000+ AIP is not unreasonable if you're doing that.

Going over 200 AIP in a non-Fallen Spire game triggers a mechanic where the AI will begin redirecting some of the strength used to spawn defensive reinforcements into waves.  The redirection is penalized on difficulties below 10, though, so this shouldn't be a huge problem at Diff 7.  At diff 7 you could probably handle 300 AIP with decent defenses, and I wouldn't be surprised if you could handle 400 AIP for a short period (ie, between killing one AI homeworld and tackling the next).  Yes, even as a new player, if your defenses are at all competent.  You can see my defensive set up in my AAR, which was at Diff 10 with lots of player-friendly cheese: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,15770.msg175890.html#msg175890

Everything is harder on higher difficulties, though.  All of the AI's responses scale faster with AIP on higher difficulties; they get more reinforcements, bigger waves, and will launch larger CPAs.  You also get less AIP reduction from data centers at high difficulties. 

The typical number I've heard is about 20 planets taken at the end of the game.  Depends quite a bit on map size and layout, obviously, but that's a good rule of thumb.

I would try to avoid taking large swaths of territory.  Consider hacking fabs instead of taking them, this can save both the AIP for taking the planet AND the need to defend that planet for the rest of the game.  This is especially useful for fabs that would be hard to defend.  ARS systems you can abandon after you cap the ARS if you don't want to hold them.  You can travel up to four hops out from any non-AI-held system without triggering deepstrike responses, but you don't have to hold planets you clear for that purpose. 

If you can take an advanced factory, you may want to unlock MkIII scouts, at which point the factory will grant you the MkIV scout.  You only get one and it's slow, but it is immune to tachyon, making it uncloakable and effectively invincible, so you can use it to scout the entire map, then park it on an AI homeworld. 

I think most people tend to focus their K into upgrading their mobile military, especially their bonus ship unlocks, favorite starships, and bombers.  You don't need to upgrade your whole military, just the important stuff.  IE, if you get a fleet unlock that doesn't have any bonuses you need, leave it at MkI.

Area mines, grav turrets, and HBCs are really solid defensive unlocks.  At diff 7 you proooobably won't need a huge amount of defense.  Target your turret unlocks for whatever has the bonuses you need, if you need to pick up turrets to supplement defenses, but you may not need any MkII turrets.  Core Turrets (which count as fabs for hacking purposes) are also great defensive options depending on the turret. 

Ideally, set up your primary core such that there are a few choke point systems that you control that the AI has to pass through.  When a CPA shows up, you want the ships to have to fly through at least one choke point to get to anything vulnerable, and you want those chokes heavily defended.  That's also where you want your waves hitting, so that the same defenses that kill waves can also be used to kill CPAs.   

Kahuna is very turret-happy but he plays on Diff 10 against difficult AI types.  You will not need as many turrets at Diff 7. 




Offline Aklyon

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 06:58:37 pm »
In addition to tadrinth's post, if you have lots of spare energy, build up some turrets somewhere. Sniper, Spider, or Missile turrets are good choices for this, since they've got superb range. If you have lots of spare energy and metal, build mercenary ships instead so that your investment is mobile.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2014, 03:27:18 am »
build mercenary ships
Yep. I prefer Parasites. They're quite tanky since they're Mark IV. Also since they're Mark IV they're very good at reclaiming stuff. So you get more bang per buck since you're going to be reclaiming hundreds of AI ships.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Nikolai01

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 01:20:14 pm »
Thanks for the help!  The game is coming along (I only get to play occassionally   :( ), and I am going to make my thrust towards the homeworlds soon.  I will say my scattered planets and distributed defense are making me a bit nervous...the homeworld will probably be touchy affairs as I won't want to move too much of my fleet away from defense.  Maybe I will invest in more turrets after all...though I'm also getting a little energy shy.   ;D

One slight confusion--I assumed the magnitude of the AI's response to my hacking was proportional to the my current "hacking" level/score, but it seemed to me that subsequent hacks brought about a more dramatic response, even at similar hacking score levels.  Is it the case that (regardless of the hacking score) each subsequent hack (of any type) brings about a more robust AI response, and that the hacking score only has an effect when it goes negative (in which case I assume the AI goes crazy if you hack)?

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 01:24:28 pm »
One slight confusion--I assumed the magnitude of the AI's response to my hacking was proportional to the my current "hacking" level/score, but it seemed to me that subsequent hacks brought about a more dramatic response, even at similar hacking score levels.  Is it the case that (regardless of the hacking score) each subsequent hack (of any type) brings about a more robust AI response, and that the hacking score only has an effect when it goes negative (in which case I assume the AI goes crazy if you hack)?

The hacking response values are based on "3" things.
1) How much hacking points you've spent
2) How much of the hack-you're-doing have you done previously
3) If your remaining HaP is below 0

3 has a HUGE multiplier effect, followed by 2 (if you do the same type of hack a lot, not only does it get more expensive, the response is greater as well).  Followed by a relatively small effect from 1.

Offline tadrinth

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 03:53:04 pm »
The hacking response calculations are a bit complicated.

The response to hacking gets worse with every hack.  If you have a large excess of HaP, this can slightly mitigate that effect; IIRC, once you've spent past 100 HaP, if you maintain a large buffer of HaP, the hacks will only get slightly worse per hack.  If you don't keep a buffer, they rapidly become worse past 100.  Here's the blog post for that patch: http://arcengames.blogspot.com/2014/06/ai-war-beta-7034-when-cities-attack.html

Repeated hacks of the same type increase the cost but I don't think they otherwise increase the response.

Trying to hack with a negative HaP will produce dramatically disproportionate responses.  I believe someone described having things be reasonably manageable even up to thousands of ships spawning per pulse, then a pile of Avengers spawned.  I think he was down into something like -500 HaP, though. 

Offline Nikolai01

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2014, 12:48:50 pm »
Looking forward to my next game, is there any standard setup for a normal game?  I had used the "beginner 2" script for my current game--it uses the simple ship choice setup.  I assume that complex is the standard choice (allowing all the possible bonus ships)?  Are any of the other options considered standard and/or recommended?  AI plots?  Astro trains?  Others?

I also haven't installed the expansions yet, given that this was my first real game, but was considering adding them for the next round.  Is that a good idea, or should I just get a handle on the base game first?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 12:54:05 pm by Nikolai01 »

Offline Aklyon

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2014, 01:19:52 pm »
Trying to hack with a negative HaP will produce dramatically disproportionate responses.  I believe someone described having things be reasonably manageable even up to thousands of ships spawning per pulse, then a pile of Avengers spawned.  I think he was down into something like -500 HaP, though.
I think it was lower than that, but -500 is certainly going to be super dangerous.
Essentially the AI will not like you in all cases of negative HaP hacking, but will attempt to just flatout murder you with avenger spam if you try to hack the deep enough to cause arithmatic problems and drops all other hacking responses.

Offline doctorfrog

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Re: Newbie Questions
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2014, 02:33:43 pm »
Looking forward to my next game, is there any standard setup for a normal game?  I had used the "beginner 2" script for my current game--it uses the simple ship choice setup.  I assume that complex is the standard choice (allowing all the possible bonus ships)?  Are any of the other options considered standard and/or recommended?  AI plots?  Astro trains?  Others?

I also haven't installed the expansions yet, given that this was my first real game, but was considering adding them for the next round.  Is that a good idea, or should I just get a handle on the base game first?
Just a possibility rather than a "you should do this:" Start with the Beginner 2 script, and turn one or both AIs up to 6 or 7. This unlocks more tactical nastiness. Keep trains out for now.

Unlock whatever ships you're interested in (all of them if you're up for it), and enable one or two friendly factions (rebels, etc.), and some unfriendlies (Neinzul). Keep them between 1-4 to keep them from being overwhelming, and don't pick too many.

At this stage, you might want to avoid: trains, Neinzul Hybrids and Advanced Hybrids, maybe Golems, maybe the advanced plots like Fallen Spire and Dark Spire.

One of the tough bits in AI War is just figuring out what in the heck you're in for from the lobby, and perhaps not finding out until 2-4 hours into a campaign. I hope that some more lobby scripts come out of the UI project that's supposed to be coming soon.