New stuff on the wiki

[onyhow]

I think it piggybacks on Teleport immunity...consider that normal translocator (not the redone military station) randomly teleports your ships around...

[Aeson]

(Minor point: the Plasma Siege Modules aren't particularly strong against most guardians, as they don't get a bonus versus medium hulls.)

True, but Plasma Siege Modules are a decently high damage weapon, and guardians tend to be in the middle of a bunch of other AI ships, which is one of the few ways that Plasma Siege Modules can be used to hurt most fleet ships - either you fire on something big, like a guardian, guard post, or starship, or you don't get to fire at all.

[Bognor]

I think it piggybacks on Teleport immunity...consider that normal translocator (not the redone military station) randomly teleports your ships around...

Yeah but that's not listed under immunities either.

...one of the few ways that Plasma Siege Modules can be used to hurt most fleet ships - either you fire on something big, like a guardian, guard post, or starship, or you don't get to fire at all.

I'd assumed they worked the same as Plasma Siege Starships, which (unlike their Antimatter Starship predecessors) can fire on small stuff, but have autotargeting logic that strongly prefers big stuff to avoid wasting damage potential through overkill.  Will test next time I play...

[onyhow]

Plasma Siege module won't target small ships, speaking from experience...kinda regret a bit now that i level it up to lv 4 (still good for shooting down fortresses though, but maybe bomber drones might do better job)

[Diazo]

I don't think we have dedicated pages yet for any of the units introduced in Ancient Shadows, even the fleet ships.

Ya, RL has been busy lately but it's looking like I'll finally be able to add those in the next few weeks.

I'm going through and updating the existing ships for the 6.0 changes also, so it's a lot to update.

I'll chip away at it over the next while.

D.

[Bognor]

Yeah, I saw your edits in Recent Changes.  Glad you're back!

[keith.lamothe]

The Return Of The Wiki Warrior


Beyond a certain size, spreadsheets change from data management to combat.

[Diazo]

Heh, tell me about it.

I have so many variations of the update code at this point....

Anyways, I am seriously starting to work on this now. I would appreciate a double-check however.

On the recent changes page here you can see a log of my edits to the wiki.

Can people open up a couple at random just to make sure everything is working please?

At this point I'm just updating the old ships for their new stats in AS and adding the new ship pages so I'm not making major changes yet, but that is coming and I don't want to get too far in before I copy-paste a stupid mistake across 30 pages.

Thanks,

D.

edit:

On that note, I need an 'official' list of the number and names of the nebula missions to start adding them to the wiki. Official in this case being what we agree on here in the forum.

[Faulty Logic]

How about the order they were released?

1} Epsilon vs. Sorrow's Fang
2} Shattered Pillar vs. Neinzul vs Dark Spire
3} Neinzul Mourners vs. Prisons
4} Grey Spire vs. Gatlings
5} Shattered Pillar vs. Citadel Ascendant
6} IMT vs. Devourer
7} IMT+Mourners vs. Dark Spire+Citadel
8} Epsilon+Grey Spire+Shattered Pillar vs. Sorrow's Fang+Neinzul
9} Everyone good vs. Everyone else.

(I can find no record of 7 or 8 in the patch notes, but I think they were released with 9. Tie broken by order of encounter. Sub-tie broken by personal experience)

[Bognor]

Can people open up a couple at random just to make sure everything is working please?

The older ones you've tweaked look good, but there are some problems with the tables on Zenith Siege Engine.  On both tables the Mark III line is showing Mark II stats, and the Mark V cap metal cost looks wrong.

You'll probably want to kick me for not suggesting this earlier, but the immunities lines could all use a little tweak: "Tractor Beams ? Paralysis Attacks ? Being Insta-Killed ? Mines" would be much easier to parse than "Tractor Beams Paralysis Attacks Being Insta-Killed Mines".  I think the game uses variable spacing to achieve the same effect.

Edit: Doh, the ? are supposed to be bullets like in the "Ships and Structures" navbox.

[Diazo]

The older ones you've tweaked look good, but there are some problems with the tables on Zenith Siege Engine.  On both tables the Mark III line is showing Mark II stats, and the Mark V cap metal cost looks wrong.

You'll probably want to kick me for not suggesting this earlier, but the immunities lines could all use a little tweak: "Tractor Beams ? Paralysis Attacks ? Being Insta-Killed ? Mines" would be much easier to parse than "Tractor Beams Paralysis Attacks Being Insta-Killed Mines".  I think the game uses variable spacing to achieve the same effect.

Ugh. I know what happened on the Mk II/III and that's an easy fix. Not sure why the Mk V metal cost is wrong, will have to dig into it.

As for the immunities, I'd like to do that but the data file passes it to me as one long text string, there is nothing that tells me one ability from the next. I can't use spaces as some of the immunities have multiple words.

If you have some sort of brain wave I'll see if I can implement it but nothing I've come up with works.

Thanks for taking a look.

D.

[Eternaly_Lost]

The older ones you've tweaked look good, but there are some problems with the tables on Zenith Siege Engine.  On both tables the Mark III line is showing Mark II stats, and the Mark V cap metal cost looks wrong.

You'll probably want to kick me for not suggesting this earlier, but the immunities lines could all use a little tweak: "Tractor Beams ? Paralysis Attacks ? Being Insta-Killed ? Mines" would be much easier to parse than "Tractor Beams Paralysis Attacks Being Insta-Killed Mines".  I think the game uses variable spacing to achieve the same effect.

Ugh. I know what happened on the Mk II/III and that's an easy fix. Not sure why the Mk V metal cost is wrong, will have to dig into it.

As for the immunities, I'd like to do that but the data file passes it to me as one long text string, there is nothing that tells me one ability from the next. I can't use spaces as some of the immunities have multiple words.

If you have some sort of brain wave I'll see if I can implement it but nothing I've come up with works.

Thanks for taking a look.

D.

What about using some sort of processing on the stream? The immunities have a finite set size ( how often do we get a new one added?), so build a list of all of them and parse the string from the start and when you find a complete match chop that part off the stream, add to a nice list and start over with the newly chopped list for the next one. I don't think there is anything weird in the game that I have noticed were you have things like for something completely random: immune acid and immune acid blades. Not that would break it, you just need to do a bit more processing to confirm that you wanted immune acid and not immune acid blades by looking at the next word.

Or maybe we could ask Keith add in the next update that the stream is , or tab or something else separated.

Where would I get this raw data stream of immunities anyway? I want to take a bit of a look at it myself.

[Diazo]

The older ones you've tweaked look good, but there are some problems with the tables on Zenith Siege Engine.  On both tables the Mark III line is showing Mark II stats, and the Mark V cap metal cost looks wrong.

You'll probably want to kick me for not suggesting this earlier, but the immunities lines could all use a little tweak: "Tractor Beams ? Paralysis Attacks ? Being Insta-Killed ? Mines" would be much easier to parse than "Tractor Beams Paralysis Attacks Being Insta-Killed Mines".  I think the game uses variable spacing to achieve the same effect.

Ugh. I know what happened on the Mk II/III and that's an easy fix. Not sure why the Mk V metal cost is wrong, will have to dig into it.

As for the immunities, I'd like to do that but the data file passes it to me as one long text string, there is nothing that tells me one ability from the next. I can't use spaces as some of the immunities have multiple words.

If you have some sort of brain wave I'll see if I can implement it but nothing I've come up with works.

Thanks for taking a look.

D.

What about using some sort of processing on the stream? The immunities have a finite set size ( how often do we get a new one added?), so build a list of all of them and parse the string from the start and when you find a complete match chop that part off the stream, add to a nice list and start over with the newly chopped list for the next one. I don't think there is anything weird in the game that I have noticed were you have things like for something completely random: immune acid and immune acid blades. Not that would break it, you just need to do a bit more processing to confirm that you wanted immune acid and not immune acid blades by looking at the next word.

Or maybe we could ask Keith add in the next update that the stream is , or tab or something else separated.

Where would I get this raw data stream of immunities anyway? I want to take a bit of a look at it myself.

Hmm. I don't have to do it all in one query do I? Possible idea.

As for the data files, there are two I use.

The first is the data file dump. While a game is running in system view, hit F3 to bring up the stats window. Then press Ctrl-Shift-F8, the game will write some data files and then close itself. However, this data file set is older and missing some data so Keith has a newer dump.

To find the newer data dump, go into the Stats -> reference screen and there is the Export Balance Stats button. However, this button only exports the units that match the filters at the top of the screen, so there is no guarantee you have all units in the game in this export.

Note that both exports use your current game settings, make sure you are on Normal combat style and Normal ship cap if you are going to compare your exports to what I'm putting up on the wiki.

The Ctrl-Shift-F8 export is found at ai war\runtimedata\data\{multiple files}
The Reference Window export is found at ai war\runtimedata\ReferenceWindowBalanceExport.csv

Let's go see if I can make this the immunities and abilities correctly.

D.

edit:

AREGHFOPSIG:H!!!!!!

Typo in my formula, the Mk V ship cap metal costs will be wrong on every page.

If I'm going back to do the abilities and immunities though, I'll be re-doing them anyway.


edit the 2nd:

Okay, think I have the spacing thing worked out.

5 pages complete with what should be the final layout. Note that I changed the Ship Cap to "96 per mark" to make it clear that it is 96 ships of each mark level, not 96 ships total across all marks.

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Fighter
http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Bomber
http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Missile_Frigate
http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Zenith_Siege_Engine
http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Zenith_Viral_Shredder

Thoughts?


Keith: I've been getting "500 Internal Server Error" errors both in editing the Wiki and posting here on the forums. Can you check the computer those run on? I don't think I'm pounding it that hard.....



edit the Nth:

Fortress King and Heroic AI types, either of them have wave or reinforcement size multipliers?

Game Setup: Random All Non-Techlonogist. Will this pick from all the AI types that don't have Technologist in their name, or will not pick from the AI types with the Red color in their name? IE: Could the Heroic AI type be randomly picked if you choose Random All Non-Technologist?

http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_AI_Opponent_Types otherwise updated.

For the Ancient Shadows nebula, I pulled their names from the .xml file as it shows in the Journal in game. However, what are the pre-reqs for the different nebulas please so I can order them correctly.

And updated the Ship List at http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Template:AIWarShips
Notably the Ancient Shadows and Astrotrain section. Comments?

[Bognor]

Well now the Mark II line is showing the Mark III stats 

But nice work in figuring out the immunities.  Just had a crazy idea - how about pairing the individual immunities with some kind of rarely-used punctuation, like @Tractor Beams, @Paralysis Attacks, @Being Insta-Killed, @Mines, or  {Tractor Beams} {Paralysis Attacks} {Being Insta-Killed} {Mines}.  The advantage would be you could use the wiki's search function kind of like a database: you could quickly find all ships immune to mines, for example, by searching "@Mines" or "{Mines}" or whatever.  At present searching "Mines" gives you too many generic advice pages and patch notes to be expedient.  (We'd need to check the punctuation doesn't confuse the wiki's search function before mass implementation.)

[Diazo]

Well now the Mark II line is showing the Mark III stats 

But nice work in figuring out the immunities.  Just had a crazy idea - how about pairing the individual immunities with some kind of rarely-used punctuation, like @Tractor Beams, @Paralysis Attacks, @Being Insta-Killed, @Mines, or  {Tractor Beams} {Paralysis Attacks} {Being Insta-Killed} {Mines}.  The advantage would be you could use the wiki's search function kind of like a database: you could quickly find all ships immune to mines, for example, by searching "@Mines" or "{Mines}" or whatever.  At present searching "Mines" gives you too many generic advice pages and patch notes to be expedient.  (We'd need to check the punctuation doesn't confuse the wiki's search function before mass implementation.)

I kept updating my last post as you posted this, check my last edits please.

As for the immunities, I was figuring the immunities page would get a sorted by ship type list of them. Some sort of dynamic table based on check boxes? I'm not 100% sure of Mediawiki's capabilities.

At the very least I can chunk out a true/false table from the data files quite easily.

D.

edit: Ugh. Stupid Mark level stats....  Added a typo check, that should not happen again.