New Player - Raid engine help / clarification

[Weteor]

Hi!

First: really great game. I'm usually not very fond of RTS/Tower Defense etc. games (well, I like 4X games but I'm terrible at them), but i really like AI Wars.

Second: I'm in my second game ( won my first game at diff 5, started the second at diff 7 / 60 Planets / normal caps) and it worked quite well, even though
the AI almost killed me twice . I'm 9 hours in and trying to kill the first AI home planet but can't find a way past the Core Raid Engine at that planet.
Current galaxy map / game state looks like this:



My main fleet is "in" the green circle. There is a counterattack guard post, so I don't want to take that planet right now. I'm trying to clear a passage to the
Core planet (red circle). I attacked the next planet and got a wave warning for 40,000 and a few minutes later 47,000 ships (looks like this: http://oi54.tinypic.com/2iu2ago.jpg ).
After taking a closer look at the Core planet I found a raid engine. So I thought easy just kill the engine first, but I'm unable to do this. It doesn't matter how
many or few ships I send, the moment any ship enters the adjacent planet the raid engine triggers a wave of about 40000 ships. I even tried 1 Bomber Starship
or 10 fleet bombers and I don't think the AI should consider this a "significant fleet".

Is there anything I don't know about the raid engine? Any strategy to kill it without triggering a wave?


On a side note: There is a Data Center at the P4-labeled planet in the lower right. There are about 50 to 70 ships at each Planet.
How would you destroy it?
Raid Starships are really weak against fortresses and a blob of low-level ships is a bit meh . Does someone has a more elegant solution for this?

[orzelek]

First: welcome

Second: are you using transports by any chance?

They can get your fleet up to 4 jumps out of your territory (dieing after last jump) - this should make taking out the P4 data center and raid engine much easier.
Fleet of as many bombers as you can build in 3-4 transports (with 1-2 empty ones at front to soak up damage) should be enough to take raid engine on core world (unless you angered it heavily and there are thousands of ships there).

[Weteor]

I used transports ... for scouting (and good to know they are destroyed 4 jumps into enemy territory). Somehow forgot to use them to get the data center but I think it's no solution for the raid engine. I don't have a problem to get there and destroy it. I'm just unable to do it without triggering a gigantic wave.
My assumption is that it works similar to the AI Eye. Get too many ships in or around the system with an engine and it spawns a wave, but apparently there is something I don't know.
Could someone enlighten me please 

I play 4.041 if that helps.

[Mánagarmr]

Odd, raid engines go off if you have 100 ships or a starship on the planet, or adjacent to it. That's the definition of "significant". 99 Mk IV Bombers in a transport and spank it? Just a theory, but it might work.

[Weteor]

Ok, tried a few things and the wave is triggered no matter how many ships I use.

10 or cap bomber IV -> wave triggered on adjacent planet
10 or cap bomber I   -> wave triggered on adjacent planet
10 or cap bomber in transport -> wave triggered the moment a ship leaves the transport (a bit better ... but not much ).

I assume this is some kind of bug and not intended behaviour? Or could there be something else I don't see/know?

[orzelek]

Raid engines were considered to be to weak some time ago and they will agro off any ship now on their or neighboring planet.
I think that only scouts are exempted from this rule.

[Weteor]

ah, thanks for that. It changed in 4.029 apparently.
I've put a report on mantis to correct the tooltip-text reflecting that change.
Hopefully the wavesizes are downsized to a more manageable amount in the next patch.

[Mánagarmr]

Do you have any chance of hitting the other homeworld first? Then the counterwaves will be a non-issue unless that also has a counterwave post.

[Weteor]

The other homeworld also has a raid engine (these are the only raid engines in the whole galaxy). And to add insult to injury the first homeworld has the last AI-CoProcessor and the lvl4 planet next to the other homeworld contains 3 data-centers. Lucky me

[Fruden]

 Hi, you have roughly 3 minutes from when the raid engine notices you until the wave is released. I'd recommend building a fleet of transports, fill them up with what you can spare, then send them directly to the raid engine, and unload right on top of it. Having 3-4 empty transports in front of your transport fleet to catch most bullets will allow the rest of them to make it to their destination, and splitting your assault fleet between the 5-10 other transports means you'll unload 50-100 ships per second. Just make sure to tell them to target the engine when they are unloaded. You can then use the remaining transports to escape with what survives of your fighting ships.

 Good luck!

[Weteor]

Yeah, that was my plan. Problem is the wave doesn't disappear when you destroy the raid engine and 40,000 ships are a bit tough to handle. Anyway, with the new patch the resulting wave is much more managable (around 1.4k ships) and I've destroyed the first AI-homestation. Second one was a mere planet away, when the AI somehow steamrolled 4 planets and destroyed my homestation. Well, reload and another try ...

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Dyers_Eve]

I've had a raid engine on a mark IV planet like 3 hops from my starting planet before so I feel your pain. I loaded a transport with only 4x bomber starships and some trash mark 1 bomber/frigates. Kill the raid engine just barely and hold the rest of your fleet back to defeat the raid counterattack. Build fortress and tons of defenses if you got 'em.

You also have a lot of ships around your galaxy not doing much so gather them all up. not sure if 40k mark IV AI ships is beatable even if they are nanoswarms, maybe build max tech lightning turrets.

[Weteor]

Finally won that game. Sorry, I have to tell someone.

I killed the remaining homestation after 13:37:15 . Could  have been sooner if the AI hadn't decided to launch a CPA (1500 ships) just when my fleet was gathered two hops from the homeplanet ready to strike. Had to retreat to defend my planets and just when the timer run out a normal wave of about 1300 Space Tanks hit the other end of the galaxy. Took a bit time to rebuild . AI were grav driller and Support Corps.

What a great game.

[Winter Born]

Congrats on the win. 

[Lancefighter]

I'm calling bs.. I mean really, a 13:37 win?